I Want Nothing More in a Digital Camera

The market always serves the lowest common demoninator, that's very true. Most of the money is made by those single-use cameras and el cheapo point-n-shoot digicams that do all the thinking for you. Yep, I totally agree.

But I note - I can buy a huge LCD or Plasma TV now - with all the tweaks any videophile could ever want - much better in every measurable way from my 12 inch Admiral B&W TV that was my first.

My car's electronics are pretty much point-n-shoot, so to speak, but there are all kinds of tweakers out there making all kinds of products to allow those who want it to have incredible levels of control over every aspect of their vehicle performance. They can monitor and respond to changes in milliseconds, much better than I ever could with a stick shift and a tachometer in my '69 Dodge Charger.

Digital cameras will be no different. As the technology improves, many of the advances will be to even further dumb down the human interface so that all the Joe Sixpacks out there can point the thing in the vague direction of their soccer-playing kid and snap a half-way decent photo - at least in terms of proper focus and exposure. SO WHAT?

That part of the market would continue to be served, no matter if digital cameras had never been invented.

But, there exists and will continue to exist, a market for those who want control over their tools. And new tools bring new levels of control. New skills will have to be learned, wah, too bad for the sticks-in-the-mud.

I love the future. I also love my Canon FX from 1962, but I won't be doing most of my shooting on it ten years from now.

You got on this rocket sled when you got an M8. The ride ain't over yet. Sit down and enjoy it.
 
jaapv said:
Same here; all sci-fi developments described in this thread will undoubtedly happen, plus a few we can't even imagine, but that is not for the basic type of photography we RF types practice. After all, oil paint has not changed since the days of Rembrandt, despite our current imaging revolution.
Leica going digital has been quite enough for me to handle. No more, please ;)
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hilarious.. on one hand you guys beg for a digital Leica RF, and once it arrives, everyone proclaims it is the best thing since sliced bread and promptly dumps all your Leica film gear (..my film vs. digital 100% crop comparisons has me convinced! some of you would say..). Now you're talking down all the possible technological advancements that could come in the future for photography.. talk about wanting one's cake and eat it too.. end the contradictions please!
 
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Naos: I can see that you really want an M8, and that you will not regret the purchase after the M8b or M9 comes out. You are just looking for someone to agree with you, so you can feel you have permission to go ahead with it. But the M8 is a very fine camera. The quality is obvious, even in the 600 x 900 pixel images I see posted on the web. But if you ask a question to 3 Leica owners, you will get five opinions. So I say follow your own sense of what you want and need, without seeking anyone's permission. After all, some of the most respected and gifted of our members here and on Photo.net have already bought one.
 
paisatge said:
for me, it would be a full frame with clean iso 3200.
most probably comes with a live view and self cleaning sensor with battery life for 2000 shots. :rolleyes:
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Add an image stabilizer, a 10f/s capability and a few tilt-shift lenses and I buy it...
In fact once you have a very good live view and a mirror lock up I do not see anymore the difference between an SLR and a rangefinder... They should only manage to make those things a bit lighter and smaller. I have the feeling that for once Olympus is going to the right direction (except that they do not make the tilt-sihft stuff I think and that they do not use a full frame at the moment but I cannot see too much difference in quality anyway)...

GLF
 
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It's nice to know you're happy with the M8, but, I always want more. In 20 years sensors will have much better noise performance and detail. The M8 sensors isn't even that great compared to today's standard.
 
ywenz said:
hilarious.. on one hand you guys beg for a digital Leica RF, and once it arrives, everyone proclaims it is the best thing since sliced bread and promptly dumps all your Leica film gear (..my film vs. digital 100% crop comparisons has me convinced! some of you would say..). Now you're talking down all the possible technological advancements that could come in the future for photography.. talk about wanting one's cake and eat it too.. end the contradictions please!
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I don't use sliced bread - too modern. I tear it. :D I'll look at technological advances as they come and upgrade if it makes sense for to do so - let's see them first. Some are talking about pie in the sky and claim they can eat that. I'll stick with my red-dotted cake until something better comes along, thank you. As it seems now, that may well be for a long,long time.

Btw, I don't see any contradiction in obtaining a tool that fulfills ones wishes and then being sceptical about hypothetical new developments that will *maybe* be an improvement in theory - when and if they occur- but seem unlikely to add anything to the use of that tool. There is a word for that: content.
 
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giellaleafapmu said:
Add an image stabilizer, a 10f/s capability and a few tilt-shift lenses and I buy it...
In fact once you have a very good live view and a mirror lock up I do not see anymore the difference between an SLR and a rangefinder... They should only manage to make those things a bit lighter and smaller. I have the feeling that for once Olympus is going to the right direction (except that they do not make the tilt-sihft stuff I think and that they do not use a full frame at the moment but I cannot see too much difference in quality anyway)...

GLF
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Might I suggest that you look at Canon's lineup? I can think of one or two cameras there that will meet your criteria, although they fall short of mine....
 
It's like a film company bringing a brand-new film to the market. If it's better than the current offerings, you will switch. Kind of ridiculous for someone to proclaim that everything I have today is good enough for me, especially when no one knows what advancements will come with time.
 
Don't you have a rap to write or something???? Ywenz, what you have to learn grasshopper is balance. There is room for more than one technology when it comes to photography. As you said to me last night, if you want to dream new and better technology great, but for those that are content with the M8 or whichever medium they use then let them be so..................

Now go back to "gettin skilly" with it or whatever you do :D
 
Interesting discussion about old vs new technology taking place between persons separated by thousands of miles on this contraption called the "interweb".
 
ywenz said:
no one knows what advancements will come with time.
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Thank you for making the point for me.


ywenz said:
It's like a film company bringing a brand-new film to the market. If it's better than the current offerings, you will switch.
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You mean like quality-conscious photographers kept on shooting Kodachrome for sixty years, despite things like Agfa RSX,Velvia,Sensia etc...?
 
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Being in Tech business for more than 20 years, I know Bmattock is right 150%.
In fact, if Leica does not come with a new Mx and cheaper (even a digi CL) it will go out of business.
Our niche does not supports a company like Leica (I for instance rather spend 5000 € on the new Nikon D3 (coming up) then on the M8), we do not buy enough of them (see RD-1) to keep it (the company) going.
And this applies to lens as well.
Even Nikon, Kwanon and Olypus only "survive above water" because they have the mass market cameras (good ones btw), and now they face Sony and Samsung. Leica has only M8 and the Panasonic expensive P&S kinda.

Besides in 10 years time we will be strugling for Batts of our old (Digi or Film) cameras...

OK, throw the rocks.... I can handle!:eek:
 
migtex said:
Being in Tech business for more than 20 years, I know Bmattock is right 150%.
In fact, if Leica does not come with a new Mx and cheaper (even a digi CL) it will go out of business.
Our niche does not supports a company like Leica (I for instance rather spend 5000 € on the new Nikon D3 (coming up) then on the M8), we do not buy enough of them (see RD-1) to keep it (the company) going.
And this applies to lens as well.
Even Nikon, Kwanon and Olypus only "survive above water" because they have the mass market cameras (good ones btw), and now they face Sony and Samsung. Leica has only M8 and the Panasonic expensive P&S kinda.

Besides in 10 years time we will be strugling for Batts of our old (Digi or Film) cameras...

OK, throw the rocks.... I can handle!:eek:
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Nobody is doubting that advancements will come. What some of us are wondering at what point of time these advancements will make technical and economic sense in this particular niche. Mass market cameras are not something Leica can or should get into. They could not survive. The giants would eat them alive.
Ask yourself what your reasons are to buy a Nikon D3. I bet you dollars to dimes that your decisive features won't be of any interest to die-hard rangefinder photographers.
 
Once Leica went to Digital (and it had to) there is no turning back.. they need to move faster (like everybody else) to survive... in fact the sensor they use in 3 years time will be cheaper but, but, the manufacturer will have another one.. and does not wanna keep the old line of sensores.... simple as that.
I think understand what you mean.. I will enjoy my S's while I can but I know I better enjoy the Dark side of photography too (I mean Digi stuff).
 
I heard Bill was back, now I knows he is. Strange, I am more inclined to agree with him than disagree in this instance. I could never be satisfied with an M8 for 20 years if it would last that long. I am constantly amazed at how will 1930/40 and 50's lenses work today. I think a lot of the reason is that the sensor, ie film, has been constantly improved. Just try swamping out your sensor on a digicam. If that does come to pass and it might then once you find a body that you like you may well enjoy it for 20 years. In the meantime I intend to enjoy both.

Bob
 
Bobfrance said:
In my experience new tech isn't designed to improve out life, it's designed to improve mass sales.



I would imagine that the only way products can improve our lives is if we purchase them in the first place. My theory is that people will only buy a product if they perceive it as improving some aspect of their lives. Improving the quality of our lives via product enhancements must go hand in hand with mass sales though the converse is not true. Mass sales dont always result in quality of life improvement.

For us to get to the level bnattock forsees we have to buy a bunch of M8s and beyond so companies will have the resources to spend on the R&D. We'll only get to those advanced technological stages if many of us want to go there. After all, why the heck would anyone bother spending on R&D unless they determined there was a demand for it?
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sunil mehta said:
For us to get to the level bnattock forsees we have to buy a bunch of M8s and beyond so companies will have the resources to spend on the R&D. We'll only get to those advanced technological stages if many of us want to go there. After all, why the heck would anyone bother spending on R&D unless they determined there was a demand for it?
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Those technologies can and will most likely originate from other form factors of digital camera. Once it matures there, Leica can adapt it for its digital RF, but that would mean Leica is again behind the curve in the digital world.. :( It's a vicious cycle.. Leica will probably no longer be around in 20 years <- that's not to say digital RF will be extinct by then though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I welcome the day when Leica gets bought by a larger, more sustainable giant like Canon or Nikon.. At least they can afford the continuation of the niche brand.
 
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