If faked B/W is OK do we still need real B/W?

[bmattock]

Digital is the wave of the future. More convenient and "superior" to film and traditional photographic processes in many ways. I'm not denying that. It's just not my way.

I concede however, that scanning a print and sharing it over the internet is also a very satisfying process. I am not anti-digital. I just like using film and printing wet even though it is not the most convenient process to do photography.

I know digital is coming, and I don't fight it. The advantages of digital to me have nothing to do with how superior or inferior it is - they have to do with convenience and speed and cost. I don't find my digital images in any way superior to my film images, although that may change in time.

Like you, I do film because I like it. I do digital to make money. There is room for both, until film is finally gone.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[ch1]

DC,

I guess you may want to recall that choices in life are not simply "black or white" - they come in shades of gray!

Actually, I'm shooting more and more B&W film over color.

I know what you can do with a scanner and PS - so what? That doesn't mean you HAVE to do it!

I find that by putting a roll of B&W film in the camera I am "forced" to look at things with a "different eye" - seeking contrast and tones and shadows rather than "attractions and flashes of color".

Seems to me all of us should do what we enjoy and stop "angsting" about it so much!

Que sera, sera....

George

 

[FrankS]

...until film is finally gone.

Like oil paints are gone after photography was invented?

 

[FrankS]

copake_ham is right: Que sera, sera....

 

[Dan Chang]

Can you still find wet plate? guys move on

 

[FrankS]

I've been thinking of giving that a try, actually. 🙂

 

[FrankS]

Like I've said before, I welcome the fact that thousands upon thousands of photographers are making the total switch to digital.

 

[paulfitz]

I am working exactly like Ted said, changing bag and all, D-76, scanner (but I do have a bottle of Rodinal tucked away), ink jet printer. I looked at some XP2 that I shot about 3 years ago and they have all turned a funny purple. My silver negs and Kodachromes from 1973 still look good.

 

[bmattock]

...until film is finally gone.

Like oil paints are gone after photography was invented?

OK, Frank, OK. I've explained the logistics of B&W film production and why it is not feasible to build new plants, but you believe what you want. Make sure you tell me about all those new B&W film companies that spring up, so I won't miss 'em.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[pesphoto]

Can you still find wet plate? guys move on

Why do we have to move on? You simply can not recreate the look and feel of a real fiber print made in a darkroom. I want the grain, the imperfections to show. Digital images are just too smooth and vanilla looking.

 

[tedwhite]

Panalure and Portriga were my all time favorites. I used them for many years. All of my darkroom equipment is carefully packaged and stored, including my beloved Simmons-Omega B22 XL and the Bessler 4X5. My son and I are currently negotiating a storefront on Main Street in Bisbee, and if all goes well, we'll open a portrait studio and commercial photo shop.

He'll do the digital and I'll slink about in the dark back room, using up my stored 11X14 Panalure and Portriga Rapid. He has no knowledge of film (he started out in digital with a Canon DSLR), BUT, he bought on ebay a Pentax 6X7 recently and wants to use it for black & white portraiture. Guess who gets to develop the film and make the prints?

Ted

 

[ch1]

I've never developed my own so come to this from a somewhat different angle.

For me, by placing B&W film in the camera I am "forced" to look differently at the world and its opportunities.

I trust commercial sources to develop my "vision" (and, admitedlly, not always with satisfactory results - particularly getting lots of scratches and dust!).

After that, I am back in control via a scanner and PS. With B&W I am mainly interested in cleaning up those darned scratches etc. but I do have the opportunity, within limits, of "fixing" contrast, highlights and sharpening.

I guess if someone showed me how to develop B&W film I'd give it a try - but, to be honest, I am less interested in that "middle part" of the process that I am in the composition on the front end and the finishing on the back.

To go back to the original post - no, I don't think turning a color photo into a B&W via software is "fun" - and isn't that what where here for?

 

[pesphoto]

I know digital is coming, and I don't fight it. The advantages of digital to me have nothing to do with how superior or inferior it is - they have to do with convenience and speed and cost. I don't find my digital images in any way superior to my film images, although that may change in time.

Like you, I do film because I like it. I do digital to make money. There is room for both, until film is finally gone.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

If the day ever comes when film is gone, Im done with photography!

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

If mock duck is OK, do we still need real ducks?

I guess the answer is: it's not the right question, I humbly think.

 

[Trius]

Scratches are unacceptable. Yes, they happen. But if it's my work, I work like hell to eliminate the source of the problem. If it's a lab's fault, they're not likely to get a second chance. Getting one's vision realized onto a print is hard work, and technical faults should not nullify the hard work of seeing, composing and exposing.

 

[FrankS]

OK, Frank, OK. I've explained the logistics of B&W film production and why it is not feasible to build new plants, but you believe what you want. Make sure you tell me about all those new B&W film companies that spring up, so I won't miss 'em.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks[/QUOTE


Bill, new B+W film production plants do not have to be built if the demand for B+W film is deminishing. All that it is required is that some of the existing plants be kept open to meet the demands of a smaller hard core market. Capitalism works this way: if there is a demand, there will be someone ready to profit from that demand.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Capitalism works this way: if there is a demand, there will be someone ready to profit from that demand.

Ahhh. That might explain the outsourcing of brainpower. Capitalism is starting to make sense now.

No, wait, it's all about the numbers. If faked revenue, do we still need real revenue?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Why on Panalure paper of course 😀

Wait a minute ... they don't make that any more ...

Really? Boy, am I out of the loop. I have one almost full box of Panalure in my fridge still. Boy, was it ever a pain to handle in the traditional B&W darkroom. That means dedication.

 

[Dan Chang]

If mock duck is OK, do we still need real ducks?

I guess the answer is: it's not the right question, I humbly think.

If your mock duck taste like a duck and do not need feed them like a regular duck, I think it is ok

 

[ch1]

Scratches are unacceptable. Yes, they happen. But if it's my work, I work like hell to eliminate the source of the problem. If it's a lab's fault, they're not likely to get a second chance. Getting one's vision realized onto a print is hard work, and technical faults should not nullify the hard work of seeing, composing and exposing.

Trius,

Well, truth be told, I scan the lab's negatives into TIFF format at 65mb per image. So I am probably seeing tiny "nicks" on screen that would not be seen on a print taken from say a "compressed" JPEG file.

I scan at such at high megapixel level with no compression in order to create an "archival image". So I am being a bit "picky" here.

That said, I do want to find a different "lab". I drop my film at a "neighborhood photo store" that sends B&W off-site (they do their own color processing on-site) and apparently don't use the "best" lab.

Regards,
George