Ikon framelines: How Accurate?

[kevin m]

I haven't handled the new Zeiss Ikon yet, but I am tempted to check one out.

My question: How accurate are the ZI framelines compared to the M6/M7 Leicas? Can you use the 35mm ZI framelines to use a 40mm lens, for example, as you can on the M bodies, or are they more accurate, like the M2 thru M4 framelines?

Thanks!

 

[triplefinger]

i find mine to be spot on.

I also use a 40mm summicron, which brings up the 50 framelines, i frame very tight with the 50s and have been pleased with the results. some get the lens modified to bring up the 35 frameline. I didn't do this because I also have a 90mm, which brings up the 85mm frameline. I don't really like that for some reason. "fixing" the 40 to bring up the 35s would have the same feel.

that said. LOVE my ikon and have had an m6 and a newer MP, which i sold.

 

[Huck Finn]

No rangefinder frames are "accurate" & all offer some percent of the actual image - about 87% in most cases, but even that varies as you move in closer or step farther away. Roger Hicks & Frances Schultz did a review of the Zeiss Ikon that was published in Shutterbug last April in which they included a comparison of frame lines. In case you can't get access to that issue in your local library, here are their findings:

"Taking the Zeiss Ikon as 100%, the following are linear &magnification) variations: + means the other finder shows more, - means less. Note: 85mm and 90mm have been lumped together: an asterisk means a 90mm frame.

ZI Frame Lines: 28mm 35mm 50mm 85mm
Leica M2 . . . . . . N/A . . +8% . . id . . . *+3%
Leica MP . . . . . +3% . . +6% . . -5% . .*id
CV Bessa R2 . . . N/A . . +3% . . +2% . *+6%
CV Bessa R3A . . N/A . . N/A . . . +2% . *-3%"

Note: id = identical

As you can see, the the ZI 35mm frame lines are not as wide as the others in the comparison so they can be used more easily with a 40mm lens than the M2 or the MP.

 

[Huck Finn]

i find mine to be spot on.

I also use a 40mm summicron, which brings up the 50 framelines, i frame very tight with the 50s and have been pleased with the results. some get the lens modified to bring up the 35 frameline. I didn't do this because I also have a 90mm, which brings up the 85mm frameline. I don't really like that for some reason. "fixing" the 40 to bring up the 35s would have the same feel.

that said. LOVE my ikon and have had an m6 and a newer MP, which i sold.

As you can see in the Hicks/Schultz comparison of frame lines that I posted, the 85mm frame lines of the ZI are identical to the 90mm frame lines of the MP & less wide that the 90 frame lines of either the M2 or the R2! For all practical purpose, they might as well be called 90. In any event, the 90mm lenses vary greatly among themselves anyway in terms of their true focal lengths - everywhere from 88mm for the Leica 90/2 AA to 93mm the for the Konica Hexanon 90/2.8. (These focal lengths are taken from measurements that were published in lens reviews from Popular Photography. I have not seen a review of the ZM 85/2 Sonnar, so I don't know whether it is actually 85mm or longer.)

My hunch is that Zeiss used the "85mm" focal length in deference to the traditional focal length of its portrait lenses, but it is not necessarily the actual length. Cosina does pretty much the same thing with its measurements. CV lenses like the 35/2.5 & 75/2.5 were actually measured at a maximum aperture of f/2.7 by popular Photography & would have been rounded off to f/2.8 by anyone else. But Cosina wanted to stake out its own territory with new lens line - one that did not overlap with Leica lenses. So, they set f/1.5, f/2.5, f/3.5, & f/4.5 as a standard whether the lenses measured that or not.

 

[Nachkebia]

I find 35mm to be way off to the left, it might be my lack of information though.

 

[kevin m]

Thanks for the info! 🙂

 

[Huck Finn]

You're welcome, Kevin. I've used the Rollei 40/2.8 on my ZI with an LTM adapter to bring up 35mm frame lines. Although I haven't been using it a lot, I've had good results when I have. The only caution is that you don't have extra room to play with so avoid tight framing. The Rollei lens is morre of a 42 while the summicron is a true 40, so it should work even better with the ZI's 35 frame.

Kevin, I'm also east of the River in CT. If you send me a PM, I'd be happy to make arrangements with you for you to try out my ZI with both your Summicron & the 50mm frame lines and my Rollei with the 35 frame lines so you can compare results. 🙂