Yep... that's for sure. Just not as fun.
In defence of the DSLR.
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Yep... that's for sure. Just not as fun.
rbelyell
Well-known
imo it comes down to a truth about humans: in the main they are willing to sacrifice quality for comfort, and then that predisposition coupled with relentless advertising convinces them they have not in fact given up quality at all. not to start a whole magilla, but i see it right now in folks talking themselves into what great results theyre getting from the xpro with RF lenses, or what great IQ the omd yields with the kit zoom (which i have).
i personally am as guilty as anyone. i traded in my tower hi fi speakers for wall mounted with a subwoofer and convinced myself it sounded just as good when i knew it didnt. it cant. just as physics simply doesnt allow the xpro to optimize RF lenses. just like an m4/3 sensor will never compete with FF. cant.
at the end of the day i think the tradeoff is not as bad as the self delusion...hopefully there is always a place for actual quality and always that minority who keep the rest of honest.
tony
i personally am as guilty as anyone. i traded in my tower hi fi speakers for wall mounted with a subwoofer and convinced myself it sounded just as good when i knew it didnt. it cant. just as physics simply doesnt allow the xpro to optimize RF lenses. just like an m4/3 sensor will never compete with FF. cant.
at the end of the day i think the tradeoff is not as bad as the self delusion...hopefully there is always a place for actual quality and always that minority who keep the rest of honest.
tony
semordnilap
Well-known
I think the mirrorless/evf offerings have a ways to go, but they'll compete sooner rather than later. It's more about the will to build the camera.
Nikon built the 1 which supposedly has excellent, fast AF. Sony has the incredible EVF–that thing is just amazing, and I can't wait to see the next generation that I expect will show up in their full frame slt. And fuji has the optical/electronic hybrid viewfinder, among other things. And all these cameras will benefit from future generations of electronics, with their improved performance and lower power requirements.
There are many disparate threads waiting a few years to be tied together into something really really great. Until then the dslr will remain king, and may continue on its inertial path for a while after... but the only thing that will hold mirrorless back is crippling by the manufacturers, whether intentional or inadvertent.
Nikon built the 1 which supposedly has excellent, fast AF. Sony has the incredible EVF–that thing is just amazing, and I can't wait to see the next generation that I expect will show up in their full frame slt. And fuji has the optical/electronic hybrid viewfinder, among other things. And all these cameras will benefit from future generations of electronics, with their improved performance and lower power requirements.
There are many disparate threads waiting a few years to be tied together into something really really great. Until then the dslr will remain king, and may continue on its inertial path for a while after... but the only thing that will hold mirrorless back is crippling by the manufacturers, whether intentional or inadvertent.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
I bought my D700 to replace my now defunct Fuji S2, never looked back. I got it to shoot my kids at swim meets and it performed flawlessly (sp). It was a good value at the time and the fact that Nikon kept it around for so long says something about this camera. I like mine and will keep it till it dies!
Todd
Todd
back alley
IMAGES
i didn't realize the dslr was under attack!
thanks for the heads up...😉
thanks for the heads up...😉
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
'Huge geat tub of lard' ... is one decription that comes to mind not that long ago. That's hardly complimentary!
back alley
IMAGES
are you talking about me?
lol!
i think the dslr is safe for a while yet...i have no need for one but that's because of what i normally shoot.
lol!
i think the dslr is safe for a while yet...i have no need for one but that's because of what i normally shoot.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
It is a love/hate thing with my D700. It is great for so many things and even the things it is second best at it does well so I put up with the bulk and weight. I do think the full frame SLR/DSLR is nearing the end of it's development and is a more or less mature product.
To get passed what it's limitations/liabilities are mirrorless cameras with ever better EVFs and autofocus are the way to go. As sensor tech gets ever better the need for full frame will be much less. That coupled with advances in lens design could lead to even smaller, lighter fast zoom lenses. That I think is the future and we are just starting to get a glimpse of that now.
Until then the DSLR of today is the 4 door Chevy of the camera world. It is not a pickup truck or a sports car but it just gets the job done well most of the time for most users.
Bob
To get passed what it's limitations/liabilities are mirrorless cameras with ever better EVFs and autofocus are the way to go. As sensor tech gets ever better the need for full frame will be much less. That coupled with advances in lens design could lead to even smaller, lighter fast zoom lenses. That I think is the future and we are just starting to get a glimpse of that now.
Until then the DSLR of today is the 4 door Chevy of the camera world. It is not a pickup truck or a sports car but it just gets the job done well most of the time for most users.
Bob
taskoni
Well-known
I guess when the job is done and done good no one cares what camera was used, dslr, slr or rf, film or digital. I think what's really matter is that we have what to choose from!
Regards,
Boris
Regards,
Boris
Bobbo
Well-known
I like when amateurs buy SLRs. It keeps the R&D money rolling in so the next generation after my D90 is faster, tougher, and better in every optical sense -- unlike the string of 12mp 4/3 and M4/3 cameras Olympus has been cranking out for the past 5 years with the same crappy high ISO noise.
@Nikon Bob: Better sensor tech only comes from those who can afford it. That's why Olympus has been plodding along with (now two) a single sensor for five friggin' years. Doesn't help they have a menu system written by an engineer, not a photographer.
Nikon and Canon are just putting out "me, too" products in the EVF field because they're doing fine with their SLRs, which work faster, have a viewfinder that actually works, have better image and build quality and have bigger systems of accessories.
I'm not too worried about the end of the DSLR. It's going to be a long time until you stop seeing rows of 1d's and D4's at football games, as there's nothing else in the forseeable future that can do the job.
@Nikon Bob: Better sensor tech only comes from those who can afford it. That's why Olympus has been plodding along with (now two) a single sensor for five friggin' years. Doesn't help they have a menu system written by an engineer, not a photographer.
Nikon and Canon are just putting out "me, too" products in the EVF field because they're doing fine with their SLRs, which work faster, have a viewfinder that actually works, have better image and build quality and have bigger systems of accessories.
I'm not too worried about the end of the DSLR. It's going to be a long time until you stop seeing rows of 1d's and D4's at football games, as there's nothing else in the forseeable future that can do the job.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Hardly inaccurate, either. Sometimes a huge great tub of lard is the best tool for the job, though I find it odd that no-one seems able or willing to make 'em smaller. The tendency to lardiness set in well before digital: look at late Canon and Niko 'pro' fim SLRs.
Cheers,
R.
giellaleafapmu
Well-known
If you have ever been into covering a sport event with film cameras I doubt you want to go back to the old days. You really needed somebody helping you with reloading film and if you didn't have two identical sets, including the uberexpensive telephoto, this implied also changing a lens every 36 shots and missing some more on the way. Also with a long telephoto and the need to freeze action you need short shutter time, hence high iso, and here digital camera shine in comparison to film. Sorry but with all the love one might have for the rangefinder film camera there is no doubt that the right tool for sport is a digital SLR camera. In fact I am not ever sure if wouldn't had even better a APC-S camera such as the EOS7d, or D300 or Sony A77 which have the ability to take more frames per second and have a bit longer reach with the same lens (some say not claiming that the ability of cropping more than balance this but I am not convinced).
GLF
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I did not say that a transition will happen over night nor that it will completely eliminate DSLRs but I think it will happen. Just as film has had a long slow decline but has not died out completely. You could look at the transition from prop to jet which was not over night and in certain areas the prop still has a place. At my age you may not see it but wait 10 years. OTH nobody's crystal ball is all that clear on what the future will bring.
Bob
willie_901
Veteran
The AF system on the D300 and D700 is amazing. It is also complex and initial selection of the best parameters is tedious. Fortunately there are informative guides available from numerous sources.
The first time I used a D300 was during a gymnastics meet. A pro lent me his brand new D300 for a day (he was shooting a D3). The AF was set up for shooting sports. I used a 50/1.8 AFS lens. Strobes were banned so I had to shoot at f 2 and ISO 1600 The AF performance was stunning. It would track and focus on a moving gymnast on a balance beam during shutter bursts.
I have no experience with other DSLR's so I can only assume other makes perform similarly. But the D700 can do everything I can imagine needing. I was not the least bit tempted to upgrade even though it would be a business expennse (tax write-off).
The first time I used a D300 was during a gymnastics meet. A pro lent me his brand new D300 for a day (he was shooting a D3). The AF was set up for shooting sports. I used a 50/1.8 AFS lens. Strobes were banned so I had to shoot at f 2 and ISO 1600 The AF performance was stunning. It would track and focus on a moving gymnast on a balance beam during shutter bursts.
I have no experience with other DSLR's so I can only assume other makes perform similarly. But the D700 can do everything I can imagine needing. I was not the least bit tempted to upgrade even though it would be a business expennse (tax write-off).
sojournerphoto
Veteran
I've concluded that it's either third or equal second for carrying on a run, bike ride or whan sailing. That's the space for properly small m4/3 stuff
MIke
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
that's an excellent shot, menthel!
jtm6
Well-known
The D700 is no longer available in Japan because of a new law which makes it illegal* to sell batteries with exposed contacts. The last I heard was that it was still available in other markets. But the writing is on the wall.
*IANAJL
*IANAJL
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I don't think the high end SLR needs any defense. It's quite capable of taking care of itself.
I've had, and have, a bunch of lovely SLR cameras over the years. Nikon F, F2, F3, FM, FM2, FE2, Olympus OM-1, OM-2, Contax RTS II, 169ma, Canon 10D, Pentax *ist DS, K10D, Panasonic L1, Olympus E-1, E-5 ... All were very good, very solid, remarkable performers. They returned the goods as desired.
I still have the Olympus E-1 and Nikon F. Two of my absolute favorites. I hate to let them go, even if I only rarely use them anymore. At that moment when I need them, nothing else will do the number.
But that's not where my photography is for the most part at present. The lighter, less precise, more fluid parts of my photo work are better handled with something smaller, lighter, and perhaps not so "in my way".
Whether the TTL electronic cameras surpass the SLR ultimately is, I think, more a matter of time and money than anything else. There's still a ways to go to achieve that level of functionality in the niches where the pro SLR reigns supreme. But those niches are not important for many many people, who want smaller, lighter, easier to deal with cameras.
Thank the gods for the diversity of cameras in the market today! It's not like all of photography can ever be encompassed with one camera.
I've had, and have, a bunch of lovely SLR cameras over the years. Nikon F, F2, F3, FM, FM2, FE2, Olympus OM-1, OM-2, Contax RTS II, 169ma, Canon 10D, Pentax *ist DS, K10D, Panasonic L1, Olympus E-1, E-5 ... All were very good, very solid, remarkable performers. They returned the goods as desired.
I still have the Olympus E-1 and Nikon F. Two of my absolute favorites. I hate to let them go, even if I only rarely use them anymore. At that moment when I need them, nothing else will do the number.
But that's not where my photography is for the most part at present. The lighter, less precise, more fluid parts of my photo work are better handled with something smaller, lighter, and perhaps not so "in my way".
Whether the TTL electronic cameras surpass the SLR ultimately is, I think, more a matter of time and money than anything else. There's still a ways to go to achieve that level of functionality in the niches where the pro SLR reigns supreme. But those niches are not important for many many people, who want smaller, lighter, easier to deal with cameras.
Thank the gods for the diversity of cameras in the market today! It's not like all of photography can ever be encompassed with one camera.
NickTrop
Veteran
DSLRs need no defense. The mirrorless cameras offer less for more.
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