Interesting what Leica admitted

[Nikon Bob]

Socke

You make some very interesting comments that I think apply not only to Germany but any industrialized western country. It is a global economy with quarterly reports the holy grail. Kodak, which I believe is also an icon of the photography world, got little governmental help and shrunk in size in the US and is now producing more film in China.

Bob

 

[bmattock]

AEG was for some 100 years on paar with Siemens.

The general public outside of Germany neither knows nor cares about AEG, Siemens, or Deutche Gesselshaft Telefunken Germeinshaft Bundes Gramophone Volks Achtung Dumpkopf Absurdishaft, AG. They know:

Rolls-Royce: England
Rolex: Switzerland
Leica: Germany
Mercedes: Germany
Nikon: Japan

These are the things that the general public think of as the 'best in the world' and representative of their countries of origin. The truth may be somewhat different - you and I know that. Rolex is NOT the best watch in the world, Rolls-Royce is not the best motorcar. It does not matter in the slightest - this is what the world thinks. These things are bound up with the world's perception of the national identity of that country.

These countries know this. England might let Morris or Rover or whomever go bye-bye, but not Rolls-Royce. Same for Rolex. Same for Leica.

Leica may not be part of who Germans think they are, but when a world citizen thinks of Leica, they think of Germany, and in a good way. Germany won't let that end.

Leica = Germany. As long as there is a Germany, there will be a Leica. QED.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Bertram2]

Ailgemeine Electrizitäts Gesellschaft is not "Germany" the way Leica is. We'll see. I'm betting Germany won't let there be a world without a Leica in it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Bill, both wrong I am afraid. Socke corrected your imagination of the meaning of AEG already and about Leica Camera let me tell you this: Politicians get involved in those decisions usually if they believe that they will influence voters this way. They throw some of our money into a mess which is already over the point of no return and after the elections the company gets closed anyway.
But some hundred poor old farts in Solms are not worth to play this dirty PR game which has gone out of style anyway because of beeing too risky for the politicians, from various reasons.
Leica is outta biz if there won't come an strong investor with good ideas., Zeiss will like that. Don't bet .
Bertram

 

[pshinkaw]

I don't think Leica was ever big enough and widely marketed enough to have the kind of national identity that some of the other nameas have. Mercedes is synonomous with Germany. Siemens has purchased so many US assets recently, its green signs have popped up all over the US. Its so common that a lot of Americans think it is an American company.

However the name has great deal of value, perhaps it is the most valuable asset left to the company. I wouldn't be surprised to see the name being sold outside of Germany and later appearing on products. Kodak or Fuji could sell a lot more of their high end digital cameras if they were called Leicas.

Has the collector's martket started pushing the price of Leica film cameras up yet? I don't ordinarily follow those prices.

-Paul

 

[Bertram2]

The general public outside of Germany neither knows nor cares about AEG, Siemens, or Deutche Gesselshaft Telefunken Germeinshaft Bundes Gramophone Volks Achtung Dumpkopf Absurdishaft, AG.

Maybe this is true for Joe Average in US, ( it is definitively not true for the whole world outside of Germany) but if so that will surely not be reason enuff for the german governement to pump capital in a sick little company .
This is at the time absolutely impossible not only from economical but from political reasons too.
Regards,
Bertram

 

[bmattock]

We'll see, won't we? I stand by my comments. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Bertram2]

We'll see, won't we? I stand by my comments. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Ouhh, eat crow, pfui Deibel noch mal !!! But it you promise to do so then eat it raw and in public I suggest ! 😉 Well I will remind you, seems you know my government better than I do.
Regards,
Bertram

 

[jlw]

These countries know this. England might let Morris or Rover or whomever go bye-bye, but not Rolls-Royce.

England sold Rolls-Royce to the Germans, who are keeping production in England only for practical reasons. (England actually is a pretty cost-effective place to build low-volume, mostly hand-finished cars -- plenty of workers with the necessary skills, good access to raw materials and transportation, etc.)

If the same practicalities play out for Leica -- and they might -- then we could expect to see low-volume, mostly hand-finished cameras continue to be manufactured at Solms. But they'll have to be supported by higher-volume models made elsewhere at lower cost. Maybe Leica could take a tip from Mercedes-Benz and BMW and open a plant in the USA!

Quick synopsis: The Leica name is not going to die; it's too valuable. The only real question is what will become of the Leica camera.

 

[Socke]

If my memory serves me, Volkswagen bought Rolls-Royce, kept Bentley and sold Rolls-Royce to BMW.
The new Bentley Coupe is made in Leipzig with VW Phaeton parts!

I'm not sure about the engines, there was one Bentley with a BMW engine when Rolls-Royce was independent.
Must ask my Ferrari dealer next time I meet him, he has Bentley and Aston Martin, too 🙂

At least Ford produces the Mondeo disguised as Jaguar S-Type in England.

And for the german government saving Leica, no way! We don't have enough money.
On the other hand, Leica prices some 30% cheaper in the USA than in Germany can be seen as dumping and punished by the WTO, especialy when subsidized by the german government. And we don't want any more problems with the WTO at the moment since Boeing started its campaign against Airbus Industries. The Airbus A350 is allready delayed due to this and in the small town where I live some 5000 jobs depend on Airbus Industries!

And another argument, no politician can explain to one of our 5,000,000 unemployed why they pump billions into a producer of luxury goods while he can't pay his rent.
For the third year in a row, pensions haven't increased. The pensioneers are voters, too!

No, Germany is in deep trouble and Leicas problems are not on the screens of those outside the Rangefinder sceene.

 

[bmattock]

We'll see! We'll see!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[dll927]

I'm not up on the latest financial news, but I read that some snooty French company (the French tend to be that way) owns a large block of Leitz stock and wanted a price raise just to make Leicas even more "prestigious". In other words, charge what the market will bear, even if it won't.

This isn't the first time Leitz has had problems. After the M4 the story goes that they were going to depend on their 'new' SLRs as their main product. When that didn't pan out, they came out with the M4-2 and later reincarnations.

Undoubtedly, when you want to be the Rolls-Royce of cameras, you deal with a small audience. And let's face it, SLRs have advantages that an RF just can't compete with. I can well remember when Pop Photo was running "SLR vs. RF" articles. Somewhat analogous to "analog vs. digital" later on.

It might be said that another Leica problem is -- durability. The damned things just don't wear out!! I have an M4-2 that has seen only moderate use, and it's nowhere near going towards the trash can.

Do they REALLY NEED those high prices?? If they came down a ways, they might have more success. If they are so in demand, what's the problem?? And I can't answer why pricing should be different here than in Europe.