invest in a "better" camera or lenses?

An M6 Classic or TTL will provide you with all the technology that you will need. Purchase one that is in excellent+ or better condition (excellent condition should be fine,too) from a reputable dealer. Start with a 50mm summicron. If in the future you will be purchasing an M9 then you might consider new with 6-bit coding. The used 35mm f2.0s have shot up in price since the introduction of the M9. The 35mm f2.5 Summarit probably is readily available. The 75mm f2.5 Summarit is a nice lens. Read Erwin Puts reviews of these two lenses on his site. You could also look into the 90mm tele-elmarit. The price of this lens has doubled to about $700 recently. It is softer then the others but for portraits it is very good. It is also very small and light.
 
Remember - a camera body only has to keep the film flat and advance it to the next frame. The lens is the only important part of the system - hence all the RFFers who use decades old M2s and M3s. Get the cheapest body that you think that you'll be comfortable with and get the best lens that you can afford.
 
Wow, great to be able to hear from everyone. I came from another forum where questions weren't taken by the senior users too kindly. Especially when they revolved around gear swapping. Feels mighty friendly here :)

By the way, someone mentioned that there's a general stockout around the world for the 35mm summilux ii and the 50mm summilux. is this true?
 
get a leica MP which my buddies tell me to be the be all and end all of film cameras

Forget the MP - it's all hype.

A good M2 or M6 with 35 and 75 or 90 (depending on body), as fast as possible. All you ever need. Problem with the Bessa is that it cann't focus fast teles.

Enjoy !

Roland.
 
ferider said:
get a leica MP which my buddies tell me to be the be all and end all of film cameras

Forget the MP - it's all hype.

A good M2 or M6 with 35 and 75 or 90 (depending on body), as fast as possible. All you ever need. Problem with the Bessa is that it cann't focus fast teles.

Enjoy !

Roland.
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I've just picked up an MP and after having M3, M2, M6ttl, M8 and M9 its the nicest of the lot.
 
I'm not saying it's not nice. Just not worth the additional US 2k that can be put into buying classic 35/2 and 90/2 - for me. Trying to answer the OPs question (he's new to RFs) about spending on camera vs. lenses .... When you already own black M2, MP, M8, M9, a bunch of modern Leica lenses, etc., the priorities might be slightly different :)
 
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For the lenses, I'd get the 75/2.5 Heliar and 35/1.7 Ultron with adapters, for the body, I'd get an M7, or if you do not care about fast shooting, an M6. These bodies both have 75mm frames, and are good enough to last decades. As to the lenses, in the rangefinder world, it is mainly about character in B&W. Start to learn the craft, then you will see if you find lenses that you like more.
 
maddoc said:
Any M4-2/P with 35/2.0 ASPH would be as good as it gets for the "real" Leica experience.
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An M4P or a user M6. For actual use, I'd never get an MP. Too much money for no operational benefit.

There are a LOT of good 35mm lenses in M-mount. Take your pick. The Leica Summarit (f/2.5) and the two Zeiss Biogons (f/2 and f/2.8) are particularly tasty for both IQ and value, IMO.
 
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Don't discard the idea of an M3. The M2 and M4 have framelines for more lenses, but for 50 mm and 90mm, there's no viewfinder that beats the M3. I use mine with 21mm and 28 mm lenses too with separate viewfinders. The build quality is, like most Leicas, superb as well.
 
I'd go M6, a used 35mm summicron or biogon, and the CV 75mm. I'm the type that likes a meter in camera...and seeing where you are coming from, you probably will too.
 
Pick out the best glass that you can afford and like the look of photos that they make. Make sure that the lenses that you pick feel right in your hands because if they do not you will not use them. Pick a camera body that feels right in your hands for the same reasons as picking the lenses. The body that you choose might be a Bessa or Leica but make sure that your lenses work with the camera and not against it.
 
No one will dispute the MP is nice, but as Roland said it isn't worth the extra money unless you really really want it, and since this is your first Leica, you don't need to spend the extra few thousand for it.

I can't add anythign that hasnt been said, but id reiterate the advice that an m4-p or m6 is your best choice. For the 75mm, the Voigtlander 2.5 has been a really nice lens. I have to thank a few members here for providing excellent reviews. For the 35mm, cron or lux, spend your money on the glass. I use a cv 35mm 1.2, only complaint is size.
 
Moriturii said:
I wouldn't get a Leica at all to be honest unless you are ready to drop it off for CLA's every now and again. The shutter system on Leica's are ancient, it's a dinosaur. It may or may not have been rock solid 60 years ago but now an electronically controlled vertical traveling metal shutter is 100x better. Not only do you get higher shutter speeds but they are accurate as well. No one can argue against this, it's fact, it's the nature of the Leica shutters.

I suggest a Hexar RF / Zeiss Ikon or similar, that can use an M mount, and get great lenses.

Or do you want to have a Leica MP whose shutter WILL be unreliable after a couple of months use just because of the nature of the shutter.

Also I suggest get Konica lenses. They are just as good as the Leica's (say M-Hexanon 50mm f2 instead of the latest Summicron), it's A THIRD of the price, and it's practically EXACTLY as good. Just look at the MTF charts on photodo, the figures are within natural errors.

Or go with vanity, and spend 10 times as much, whatever. I'm just being brutally honest. C'est la vie.

Leicas do look a lot better though I'll give you that.
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Im sorry but thats just not true. An MP will not be unreliable after a couple of months!
I have Leicas at work that havent been serviced in years but run beautifully. My M4p which I bought off someone else hasnt had a shutter service in over 10 years yet I have never had a bad exposure caused by the shutter.
It might be an old design but its certainly not a bad one.
 
I'd like to think my MP isn't all hype! I really like it and unbelievably <sarcasm>, the shutter works just fine. No CLA in site.

Here's my advice, while you get your toes wet:
Bessa R3A - you lose the 35mm frameline, but can estimate pretty well for 35mm. Or you can get a 40mm CV lens as it fills the 35-50mm gap pretty well. What you gain is a very nice camera with good metering and AE. And it's lighter which I like. And buy the grip, it makes handling very nice. $519 used at CameraQuest.com

35mm lens - Zeiss C Biogon. People rave about it for good reason - best bang for your buck out there.

If you want a 50mm - the Zeiss Planar is superb. I bought a Leica 50mm Summilux ASPH which is excellent, but also keep the Zeiss because it is lighter and a great performer.

75mm - agree with going Voightlander on this.

Then later, you can always get an M6 and use the 35mm on it. And all this will cost you less than a used MP!
 
My first rangefinder was a R3a, but I switched to Leica when an affordable M6 came on my path. MP's are very nice, but I think you are better off putting the money in lenses. Never cared for Zeiss (a bit too cool and clinical for my taste), but some of the Voigtlander lenses are really very nice. The 35/1.7 comes close to a 4th version summicron and the 50/1.5 actually might have been better than the last pre asph summilux. The VC 35/1.4 I never liked; I had the 35/1.2, results were sometimes fantastic, but it is a beast of a lens (huge and heavy).

Nice thing is that most of the gear you can buy second hand, try it and if you don't like it sell at most likely no loss at all. Trying is cheap in RF country and you have to try because especially the lenses are to a large extent a matter of personal taste.
 
Consider the M6. It was the perfect bridge for me, coming from highly automated dslr's. The meter will ease the transition, and make sure you buy a reasonably priced copy, and you should be easily able to sell it for what you bought it for, should you not like it.

The MP seems to have a rep as the most perfect M possible, but I never really got why. Some people like it, and if you can afford it, I can't see anything wrong with buying a new camera from Leica and ensuring they get some of your cash, so they can continue doing their thing.
 
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you're gonna have to handle these things to have a clue what your hands and focusing eye want. wear glasses or contacts? corrective diopter eyepiece might be needed; much cheaper and easier with a bessa. otherwise, naked leica fit your eye and hands fine? go fo it. i went with bessa r2m and a barnack because of necessity for diopters.
by the way, 50/2.5 and 35/2.5 color skopars are killer lenses, whatever the money ...
 
Buy yourself a Bessa or -- if it has to be a Leica -- an M6, and invest a little part of the saved money in a negative lab and a scanner or a positive lab.

Film is just noooo fun if you don't develop your film. YMMV.
 
Keith said:
The Bessa is a good idea and you'd probably quite like it ... then one day you'll pick up a Leica MP, M2 or whatever and suddenly you won't like the Bessa quite so much any more.

Get a Leica now and skip that stage! :D
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I second Keith's advice. The same advice was given to me by a member on another photog forum but did I listen ... Nooooooo! :bang:

Keep your eyes peeled for a used Leica on KEH, or Tamarkin http://www.tamarkin.com/ , or even here on RFF

But bottomline: Go for the glass! ;)
 
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