Is 28/2.8 Elmarit Type 4 much sharper than Type 3?

akptc

Shoot first, think later
Local time
1:07 AM
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
1,709
Location
Kansas. OMG. Kansas.
Hi, I am in the market for the 28/2.8 Elmarit (or a bargain-priced 28/2 Summicron). Today I played with what I think was Type 3 Elmarit lens, based on the serial number in the low 3,22x,xxx. The only reason I didn’t buy it ($1000 asking price, like new condition) was that I could not tell for sure whether it was the latest version or not. This is the only 28 Elmarit lens I've ever seen up-close, so my experience is rather limited. I read on photonet that Type 4 is not only a bit shorter (a good thing) but also a somewhat sharper lens.

Would greatly appreciate your feedback.
 
Last edited:
If you want performance, save your money

If you want performance, save your money

The third generation takes 49mm filters and the latest version takes 46mm.

But I would save my money if I were you and get the Cosina Voigtlander 28mm Ultron. Both these shots were done with it.

attachment.php


attachment.php
 
rover, thank you for the link, that’s just what wish I had this morning before I went lens shoping 🙂

JJW, wow, these are some sharp pics; the Ultron is certainly on my radar now, will need to take it for a test drive (btw, testing lenses with the RD1 is a blast – instant satisfaction).

(if you have a minute, please read about my dilemma below)

Here is the rest of the story – I am in the middle of putting together a documentary book for my family at large, retracing our footsteps across a few generations, mostly in Europe. but some in Canada and in the US. My Dad is writing and compiling most of the “European” text while my job is illustrations (yep, I volunteered for this job 😉). This September, I will be taking the long overdue trip back to France and Poland to shoot as many pics of places and people on my list as possible.

So now I am trying to prepare my camera kit for this adventure and frankly, have been stressing about it a lot, mostly because I don’t want to miss any potentially great shots due to not having the best lens for the job that I can afford. The funny thing is, not so long ago – before I joined the RFF – I would have been perfectly happy with a pocket digicam…

The 28mm Elmarit, the one I tested this morning on my RD1, produces amazing pics. I took a few shots wide open of the guy who is selling it, inside a poorly lit camera store where he works, and OMG!, I still get week in my knees just looking at the images on my 17” screen. I simply love the way it takes people pics.

So this is what I am thinking, hope this makes good sense:

1. The RD1 is a good candidate for the trip because:
(a) it’s digital, i.e. I can check for any bad shots right away
(b) All I would need is (from what I already have)
- 15/4 Heliar for those wider shots inside churches
- 35/1.7 CV for most every other type of shot
- 50/2 M-Hexanon as the short telephoto
- 75/2.5 CV for the “super-telephoto” if needed (would need to approximate the frames somehow on the RD1)
(c) I could take the M7 as the film backup


In this kit, I am thinking I would want to get rid of the 35mm CV but add the 28mm Emarit, mainly because I think it could serve as the main walkabout lens on the RD1. Since many of the images I plan to capture will be of people, the Elmarit would give me more confidence in the final quality of the pics. I am still very much an amateur and understand that perhaps the reason I might not be able to take as good a pic with the 35/1.7 CV as I think I took this morning with the 28mm Elmarit is my skill level. But, for all practical purposes, if the lens does the job for me, why struggle? (I am only half joking on this).

2. Alternative #2 would be the Contax G2 with 28/35/90 mm lenses. The good thing about this one is that, at least in my case, I have a hard time taking a really bad (in terms of exposure and focus) picture with this camera – it kind of provides photo smarts where I still lack them. The bad thing is – film, development, not knowing until I get back home or back to a large city.

3. Finally, I could take my Pentax DS, for which I have some amazing primes and a couple of good zooms. But this outfit is much bigger/heavier than anything else I can take, mainly due to the lenses.

So here I am, a month before my trip, not a clue what I will end up taking with me. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
 
I am not sure where you are going, but odds are unless it's deep in the heart of outer Wazooeestan or northern Cheznia there is going to be a lab there that can run either C-41 or E-6 and give you some sort of option for getting your film scanned.

I would post a message up in the appropriate forum over on photo dot net once you know your itinerary and then get a bead on places to run your film over there.

Otherwise you can set up a friend of yours here to receive the film via overnight courier, run it and post the scans on a website. There might also be some labs that do this for a small fee.

I once worked as a freelance photographer and journalist for a variety of publications. I travelled all over South America, the Middle East and the Pac Rim on assignment. My advice is the last thing you want to do if whatever it is you're doing can only be done once without any possibility of "redos" is to use a new technique or gear you're not familiar and comfortable with. Stick with what gives you good, high quality, predictable results. You don't want to be going up a learning curve on an important trip.

If you want to know all about the RD-1 and lenses, google Sean Reid. He did a whole set of tests and run throughs with the RD-1 and all the Leica-type lenses he could get his hands on.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
According to a certain E.P. --who shall remain an "Onimous" 😉 -- the type IV is sharper at f/2.8 than the type III at f/4. Only side-by-side shots and your own taste/expectations can be the ultimate judge. I'm happy with my type III 28 Elmarit-R (note it is the R version, not the M version), with the only exception that it flares with the sun directly hitting the lens.

If I were in the market for one, it'd come down to the 28 Ultron or the 28 Summicron (I'm an available light freak), and all owners of both swear by them.
 
I'm not having much luck finding close-up people shots with the 28mm Ultron. Just for the heck of it, here are a couple shots I took this morning, reduced in size but should still show what I like about the 28 Elmarit. Could I expect to get this kind of sharpness/clarity/OOF blurr with the 28 Ultron?
 

Attachments

  • _EPS0383.JPG
    _EPS0383.JPG
    439.4 KB · Views: 0
  • _EPS0384.JPG
    _EPS0384.JPG
    680.5 KB · Views: 0
The images I had loaded into a thread have been lost in one of our upgrades. I will have to look to post some Ultron images when I get home. I think the good news is that the Elmarit, Ultron and of course 28 Summicron are all excellent lenses.
 
The last version Elmarit is always easily recognisable by having E46 written on the front. I believe the difference between the third and 4th version is mainly in the size more than anything. Although the version 4 in direct comparison with version 3 will be slightly sharper at the edges at f2.8. In most circumstances I doubt you will see a difference.
 
Here are some Ultron shots.

As you can tell the museum was jam packed with stuff.

Not my best day overall, but not my worst either.
 

Attachments

  • Untitled-2.jpg
    Untitled-2.jpg
    51.1 KB · Views: 0
  • Untitled-5.jpg
    Untitled-5.jpg
    46.4 KB · Views: 0
  • Untitled-7.jpg
    Untitled-7.jpg
    43.6 KB · Views: 0
Gentlemen, thank you for posting the images, I can see that in skilled hands the Ultron can do some magic. Of the museum pics I quite like the very last image.

I admired the picture of the young lady posted before. Suprisingly, the way the face and the background shadows are rendered reminds me of how pics of my daughter tend to come out when I use the G2 with the 28mm lens.

Yep, I tried to buy the 35/2 Summicron from Pete today but was 2nd in line 🙁

Maybe I am starting to "see things" where there aren't any but I think I can discern the slight differences between the various "signatures", among my lenses. This has got to be a good thing, I tell myself 🙂

Today I spent some time taking pictures of my son with the 35/1.7 Ultron. Tried hard but could not get "3D" effect and the facial detail that I got with that 28 Elmarit. Perhaps because I only tried f2.8, rather than 2 or 1.7.

Anyway, the hunt continues. I will have to borrow the Ultron somewhere and try it. The good part is I think I know what I want from my future permanent 28 or 35mm lens.
 

Attachments

  • _EPS0414.JPG
    _EPS0414.JPG
    932.8 KB · Views: 0
Captain said:
...Although the version 4 in direct comparison with version 3 will be slightly sharper at the edges at f2.8. In most circumstances I doubt you will see a difference.
That's great to know, since the newer version is a bit more expensive 🙂
 
Size does seem to be the major difference, with the older type 3 being longer and wider at 49mm attachment thread, but the 46mm threaded version 4 is actually 10g heavier though more compact. V.4 is supposed to vignette 1.8 stops wide open compared to V.3 at 2.1 stops, but that's probably mainly an issue for slide shooters. (Source: Hove's Leica Pocket book, 7th edition, a nice little candy book). The book contradicts the V.3 being sharper at f/2.8, but who knows how accurate that is. The f/2.8 MTF charts are so close in shape, I doubt the naked eye could tell a difference even on big enlargements. I've only handled the V.3 & V.4 lenses in the store, but later got the Summicron 28mm and Zeiss Biogon ZM 28mm, which are also both great. I mainly use the Zeiss as it's the smallest, lightest and seems to be sharpest at infinity of my 28mm lenses.
 
Not to confuse you...

Not to confuse you...

😀 Have you read Sean Reid's review of wide lenses on the RD-1?

Wide lenses & RD-1

Mr. Reid is very high on the Canon 35/2.8 for the RD-1.

Enjoy your project!
 
i started w the 3rd v. 28 elmarit-r and love it, then got a cv 28/3.5 for my ltm and m bodies, and found it simply amazing, and i love how compact it is. then i ended up w a 3rd v. 28 elmarit-m. the difference between the cv 28/3.5 and elmarit-m are subtle and hard to describe. the elmarit does win out to my eyes, but it is bigger and faster, oh, and more costly. it is a wonderful lens, but so is the cv 28/3.5 in my opinion.
 
Bergen County Camera had the 28mm Elmarit and the 35mm Summicron version 3. Someone beat me to the Elmarit but I just snatched the Summicron! One more lens to go and I am set 🙂
 
Back
Top Bottom