Is the M8 actually any good?

[jaap]

I fully agree. If you are unable to see the difference you certainly should not pay the money. For those who are competent to judge relative merit, the matter might be slightly different though...🙄

Ooh than it must be my lack of notion about good photography.

 

[Olsen]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying the M8 but haven't yet been able to find a local dealer who would actually let me give one a try. What with all of the horror stories I see posted all over the web I find that I'm completely confused as to whether this camera is actually any good, or indeed useable at all!

I see example shots of high-ISO colour which look rather good but others where medium-ISO seems to lead to massive problems with noise.

I see some people saying that they've had a couple (or more) bodies before they found one that even works semi-reliably but others clearly asserting that there is no problem with the reliability at all.

Worst of all, I see endless forum posts where everyone seems to take personal offence at negative comments posted by others and spirals rapidly away from any discussion of the practical issues with the camera.

So, my questions would be:

1. Is there a wide variability in the quality of the bodies, leading to some working well and others being problematic?
2. Is there a good chance that if I spend £3000 cash on a shiney new camera that it may produce images with poor noise?
3. If the noise issues are related to the photographer's use of the camera, what do I need to bear in mind to make reasonably sure of avoiding noise problems in images I capture?

Regards

Jason

Jason,

I would recommend you to buy a M8 if you already have few M-lenses, see the advantages of the system and want a digital camera to utilize the system with. I use M8 on no higher ISO than 640. I use my 1Ds III at no higher than 800. - I was very much a '100ASA guy' before the event of the digital age. - To make a long story very short.

I drop making jpg files out of the camera and shoots only RAW (DNG) out of M8. The jpg's out of the camera are not good, while those made by post prosessing are just fantastic. This way the M8 works flawlessly and faster.

Reliability is an issue. The Norwegian dealer (Interfoto) said that those M8's on the shelves today 'are far more reliable' than those sold last year - as I have. I went no deeper into it. I already have one.
Ask your dealer; what more reliable..? That said, my camera has been to Solms once, but I was very satisfied with the support I got both from the dealer and Leica. They are a very dedicated organisation that very much want that M8 shall be a success.

 

[rxmd]

For those who are competent to judge relative merit, the matter might be slightly different though...🙄

It's probably more a question of taste than one of competence. Personally I still like the files from the EOS 10D better than those from the M8, but does that make me incompetent?

Philipp

 

[Olsen]

It's probably more a question of taste than one of competence. Personally I still like the files from the EOS 10D better than those from the M8, but does that make me incompetent?

Philipp

Is that the jpg files 'out of the camera' you are comparing?

 

[jaapv]

Philipp, you incompetent? Never in life 🙂. But then, you are not a troll either 😉 However, on the 10D I must disagree. I used it for years and got some great shots -it was my first serious digital camera, and obviously the quality is still the same as it was back then - but it cannot keep up with any present day camera. But I thought it was rangefinders we were discussing, not evil SLRs 😉

 

[jaapv]

Jason,


I drop making jpg files out of the camera and shoots only RAW (DNG) out of M8. The jpg's out of the camera are not good, while those made by post prosessing are just fantastic. This way the M8 works flawlessly and faster.

Sound advice; The only reason to use RAW is in black and white. Then you get a B&W jpeg on the LCD. Some posters suggest the B&W jpeg of the M8 is rather good. As for the quality on screen and in print of the M8's jpegs I would not know. Ever since I started digital the only Jpegs I used were the ones I took by mistake. From forum posts I would confirm Olsen is right.

 

[jaapv]

Ooh than it must be my lack of notion about good photography.

You hit it right on the button there.

 

[victoriapio]

I cannot add anything to what has been said above, except to add that rangefinder cameras "shoot" different than DSLRs, and your photography will change for the better, in my opinion.

That being said, I was in London until yesterday and after visiting the British Museum, I was looking for a pub and stumbled upon the Classic Camera - one of the finest Leica stores I have ever walked into. Take a card - or better yet buy one there - and chances are the shop will let you take a few photos with it. The web site for the Classic Camera is: http://www.theclassiccamera.com/page1.htm.

O.C. Garza
Yank from Texas

 

[Ben Z]

Eight years ago we went to London for a short stay. We got off the bus in front of the British Museum, my wife went towards the entrance, and I went toward Pied Bull Yard. She was disgusted with me, saying that we have plenty of camera stores back home. I pointed out that we have plenty of museums back home too. Let's compromise I said.


So....there we were in the British Museum....

 

[Ray Kilby]

Why do people here get nasty when others ask a question or say something they don't like? I am really tired of people being snide about other peoples supposed lack of knowledge. JasonG only asked for some help, and most people were in fact very helpful in giving their opinions. But a few still seem to get off on trying to make other photographers feel small. If you dont knw how to maniplutae this. or do that, then your not worthy to own an M8 attitude is just... well, sad. I was in New York a while back and saw the Walker Evans exhibition at the UPS building foyer. (Ithnk it was there) and saw it early and was taken around by the professor of photography of Columbia who set it up. He was very charming. Anyway t cut a story short he told me that Evans was not that technical. (By the way he knew him) and that he wasn't that knowledgeable in all sorts of areas regarding photography. But boy could he take a picture. So lets not get nasty regarding other peoples knowlede, and b supportive. The only thing that should matter is the picture.

 

[timothyk]

I would say that the camera is good, However there are some serious conditions to this statement. Firstly the current Leica systems seem to be suffering from exceptionally poor quality. This statement is made from the position not of final engineering design, but from a manufacturing quality control position. My personal experiences, the early decisions the company made in an effort to get to market quickly, and the anecdotial evidence provided in reviews and forums all lead to the perception of an organization that is not able to consistently provide quality prodcts out of the box. My personal experiences have included 2 non functioning, or partially functioning M8 bodies, (non functioning leds, and Sensor level issues) and 2 lenses needing servicing (improper focus and loose internal components). While a statement like this will likely lead to some negative replies, I am quite comfortable making them. Years ago I worked on the development and manufacturing of the worlds first true digital SLRs (specifically in image quality assurance) and had seen and read similar scenerios as we struggled through our early development almost a decade ago. I understand the intracies and pitfalls in boutique camera manufacture and am seeing and hearing things which bring be back to the early days of the DCS520.

It is important to realize that Leica is in the position of having to build technical competancy in imaging science and electronics design from the ground up, not an easy or quick activity. Leicas first choice was to find an external manufacturer to manage the design and manufacture of the M8, but for some reason that plan never materialized and they decied to build the competancies in house. Given the long history of M camera manufature and leicas expertise in such, there should be next to no instances of rangefinder focus issues or lens calibration issues, however the forums abound with threads containing rants, pleas for help, or at home fixes. This is a clear indication that the manufacturing processes so well understood are under significant pressure (time, finance, staffing, etc.). So is it getting better? I would imagine so. The pressures of continued negative press and public customer angst all have a real effect on a low volume product and its abliity to support a loyal customer base. The experiences of the manufacturing and design failures also will only serve the future better, as mistakes are often the best teachers and motivators. I would imaging that the regular senior leadership shakeups have some significant links to these issues.

I would like to state that despite my problems with the M8 system i truly love the tool. The ability to slow down, frame a shot and metiticulously move toward image capture are a wonderful support for high quality photography. This is a camera that by its design makes snapshooting difficult, and makes well thought out composition exposure and capture the rule. Some decry the heavy noise (and lets be honest, it is heavy at all iso's), but I find it to not detract from my images in any way (remember in the film days when grain selection was a attribute that played a part in the film choice and image capture process). Overall i do not know if i would buy another M8 if I had to do it all over again, but I do truly appreciate the camera and its very unique functionality, it brings me back to the sort of photography i have been missing since the advent of digitial.