Is this why Leica and some other expensive cameras are REALLY so desirable?

[Rob-F]

After owning an M3 and an M4P two of the biggest disappointments with the M8 when I bought it were the unsophisticated sound of its shutter when actuated and the teeny, tiny viewfinder magnification. I thought I could get used to these but really never did. It was the viewfinder issue that caused me to sell it in the end as my eyes grew older, but the shutter sound still annoyed me. Imagine buying a Mercedes car and finding its exhaust sounded like a 1950s Volkswagen. It was that kind of "cringe" feeling (even if no one else noticed.)

I always liked the feel and sound of the Leica M3, M2 and M4 shutters, especially when fitted with one of Tom A's mini-softies. My M6 TTL doesn't feel/sound the same, and that's a shame.

The one camera that I've had for over thirty years, and rarely get's used, is a Nikon FM-2N, and the sole reason is I can't stand the sound and feel of that shutter. It clacks and clunks like a cheap camera that's about to die. Works perfectly, spot on shutter accuracy, FFD is perfect, but it just sounds and feels like crap to use. So yeah, I agree with the guy in the video. It's not just things need to work, they need to feel and sound good too, for consumers to desire them.

Best,
-Tim

I guess there might be an optimum amount of clacking and clunking. I agree there is such a thing as too much of it. My Nikon FE2s clack, although there is no clunking. The fast CLACKLE when I press the shutter, tells me I have a picture, and that I got my picture quickly and for sure. I sold both my my Leica SLRs because, even after DAG tried to improve them, I couldn't get that satisfying feeling. They seemed lazy and slow. Instead of a clean click, I got something like, ahh, whoosh glukkle. I could tell the camera had operated, bjut the mirror was up just a little too long, leaving me agnostic as to what might have taken place out there in the world during the time I'd been deprived of my vision. The Leica's leisurely approach to exposing a frame, was no doubt intended to avoid mirror slap. But I never ever lost a shot to mirror slap, with any Nikon.

Leica M, that's another matter entirely. Except for the M5, which took too long to get the meter stick out of there, I press the button, and click and I know I have a picture.

 

[bulevardi]

Re Linux. I dual boot my machines, one side Linux the other Windows. Linux runs well on meager resources. My Dell box has been choking on Windows for years. MS downloads are a slow joke and performance is bad. I use it only for proprietary photo editing software and then only rarely/ Linux on the other hand is nimble and has some good photo editing software: GIMP and ART, both free. That's the other nice thing, almost all the software is free. If you want to breathe new life into old machines consider Linux. It, too, is free. I run Linux Mint which is popular and works well and is well supported. As always, YMMV.

I also use Linux since over 11 years now.

RawTherapee, Gimp and Inkscape are my favs for graphics.

But I use it aswel for all other office work, and for audio recordings. No need for an expensive recording studio here.

 

[peterm1]

I guess there might be an optimum amount of clacking and clunking. I agree there is such a thing as too much of it. My Nikon FE2s clack, although there is no clunking. The fast CLACKLE when I press the shutter, tells me I have a picture, and that I got my picture quickly and for sure. I sold both my my Leica SLRs because, even after DAG tried to improve them, I couldn't get that satisfying feeling. They seemed lazy and slow. Instead of a clean click, I got something like, ahh, whoosh glukkle. I could tell the camera had operated, bjut the mirror was up just a little too long, leaving me agnostic as to what might have taken place out there in the world during the time I'd been deprived of my vision. The Leica's leisurely approach to exposing a frame, was no doubt intended to avoid mirror slap. But I never ever lost a shot to mirror slap, with any Nikon.

Leica M, that's another matter entirely. Except for the M5, which took too long to get the meter stick out of there, I press the button, and click and I know I have a picture.

I am not sure if I mentioned this before. A camera pair I often compare in terms of their shutter sounds are the Nikon D200 and the Nikon D700. Both are great cameras in their own way but the sounds they make when their shutters are fired are entirely different. The D200's sound is kind of a lazy (and seemingly long) "kerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrlik". The D700 on the other hand is a VERY business-like, and a little louder,I fancy, attenuated "Klik". I should not worry but when using the D200 it often gives me the impression that I have accidentally set the shutter speed to half a second or something. As this is almost never is the case, of course I should just ignore it. But it always messes with my head and I feel compelled to go back and check my settings to make sure I have not messed the shot up. Things like this ruin the moment for me. Another camera I had which had a similar issue (if I can call it that) was the Panasonic L1 from 20 years ago.

 

[Freakscene]

I guess there might be an optimum amount of clacking and clunking. I agree there is such a thing as too much of it. My Nikon FE2s clack, although there is no clunking. The fast CLACKLE when I press the shutter, tells me I have a picture, and that I got my picture quickly and for sure. I sold both my my Leica SLRs because, even after DAG tried to improve them, I couldn't get that satisfying feeling. They seemed lazy and slow. Instead of a clean click, I got something like, ahh, whoosh glukkle. I could tell the camera had operated, bjut the mirror was up just a little too long, leaving me agnostic as to what might have taken place out there in the world during the time I'd been deprived of my vision. The Leica's leisurely approach to exposing a frame, was no doubt intended to avoid mirror slap. But I never ever lost a shot to mirror slap, with any Nikon.

Leica M, that's another matter entirely. Except for the M5, which took too long to get the meter stick out of there, I press the button, and click and I know I have a picture.

And if you measure the shutter lag in the Leica SLRs, they _are_ slow. They drove me crazy.

 

[Godfrey]

I've had Nikon, Canon, Pentax, and Leica SLRs. They're all different in terms of their timings and control oddities, but I adapted to all of them without much fuss.

I dunno: seems to me a lot of reaching on this thread to find something to complain about.

G

 

[rfaspen]

Funny. My wife, who is a better photographer, is always telling me I used a much too long shutter speed when we're out and I'm using a Leica M of some kind (usually digital). She thinks that because of the sound of the shutter. I constantly have to say to her, " no, I used a plenty fast shutter speed" but I don't think she believes me 😕. Photos seem to come out properly exposed...but that doesn't seem to matter. I should just resign to the perception that my chosen shutter speed is too slow. Silly me.

 

[willie_901]

Wrong link - deleted.

I suspect the lenses one already owns play a significant role.

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

I really like the sound my Sony A7iii makes, especially when it's in 'Silent' mode.



There, I said it, flame away.


Interesting discussion, but the packaging really doesn't come into play when you're buying it used, does it?

 

[Rob-F]

What this seems to show, in part, is a feeling of, "The way my camera responds to me, and how I respond to it, matters to me." The sound is part of that experience, but not all of it. Mirror lag counts, shutter lag counts. I expect the shutter to go off exactly at the right point of button travel that feels right to me. Not too soon, not too far down. How the camera fits my hands counts. Whether I think I get too much camera shake with a given brand (even if I really don't). I think I get too much camera shake with every Rolleiflex except the T (which I no longer own). I changed to a more expensive Rollei because it is considered a finer camera. Looks matter. The Argus C3 looks like it was designed by a committee (to me). Some say it was really a good camera, with a good lens. That boxy 35mm Rollei, same comments. I look at some cameras and think, "How good can that be?" So I have determined it's not for me, without ever having tried one. Expensive and fine cameras may have equally off-putting flaws, but we accept them because the world knows them to be fine cameras; so they MUST be all right, because they are, well, FINE CAMERAS. The "Ping" sound of a lens being fitted into my Hasselblad 500CM seems cheap to me. I expect a solid click from such fine machinery! The hard point in the shutter travel of the SWC is similarly off-putting. The F/1 Noctilux I used to have, wouldn't click solidly into place on my MP. Tolerances. But we accept these things from our FINE CAMERAS.

 

[Godfrey]

What this seems to show, in part, is a feeling of, "The way my camera responds to me, and how I respond to it, matters to me." The sound is part of that experience, but not all of it. Mirror lag counts, shutter lag counts. I expect the shutter to go off exactly at the right point of button travel that feels right to me. Not too soon, not too far down. How the camera fits my hands counts. Whether I think I get too much camera shake with a given brand (even if I really don't). I think I get too much camera shake with every Rolleiflex except the T (which I no longer own). I changed to a more expensive Rollei because it is considered a finer camera. Looks matter. The Argus C3 looks like it was designed by a committee (to me). Some say it was really a good camera, with a good lens. That boxy 35mm Rollei, same comments. I look at some cameras and think, "How good can that be?" So I have determined it's not for me, without ever having tried one. Expensive and fine cameras may have equally off-putting flaws, but we accept them because the world knows them to be fine cameras; so they MUST be all right, because they are, well, FINE CAMERAS. The "Ping" sound of a lens being fitted into my Hasselblad 500CM seems cheap to me. I expect a solid click from such fine machinery! The hard point in the shutter travel of the SWC is similarly off-putting. The F/1 Noctilux I used to have, wouldn't click solidly into place on my MP. Tolerances. But we accept these things from our FINE CAMERAS.

Ping sound? My Hassy lenses just go "click" when they lock in. ??
The Rollei 35 was designed by one designer ... his name escapes me, but when I get back home I can look it up as I have the book Rollei made about it.

G

 

[Rob-F]

Ping sound? My Hassy lenses just go "click" when they lock in. ??
The Rollei 35 was designed by one designer ... his name escapes me, but when I get back home I can look it up as I have the book Rollei made about it.

G

Well, mine goes "ping" or "boingg." It's a little spring twanging. That's it! The sound is "Twangg!" Does that seem more familiar? The designer of the Rollei 35 knew what he was doing. It's only me, thinking it looks Rube Goldberg. Or for Britons tuning in, Heath Robinson.

 

[Freakscene]

Ping sound? My Hassy lenses just go "click" when they lock in. ??
The Rollei 35 was designed by one designer ... his name escapes me, but when I get back home I can look it up as I have the book Rollei made about it.

G

The Rollei 35 was designed by Heinz Waaske. I met him once when I was a child.

 

[Godfrey]

Well, mine goes "ping" or "boingg." It's a little spring twanging. That's it! The sound is "Twangg!" Does that seem more familiar? The designer of the Rollei 35 knew what he was doing. It's only me, thinking it looks Rube Goldberg. Or for Britons tuning in, Heath Robinson.

I pulled out my 500CM and dismounted/remounted the 80, the 50, the 120, and the 180 mm lenses. And extension tubes. There is a very quiet little sound, made when a lens seats properly and latches, and it disappears when the same lens is mounted on an extension tube seated on the body's bayonet. I believe it is the spring-loaded coupling of the firing pin which actuates the lens shutter seating home as the lens is rotated home into the bayonet mount locking position, and the additional transfer pin in an extension tube with its separate spring load damps it out.

If this sort of clean mechanical noise of the mechanism annoys you, I'm not sure what to say. I have to listen very carefully, in a dead quiet room, just to hear it. 🤷‍♂️

G

 

[rfaspen]

I doubt the sound is annoying, per se. Rather, I think some of us have a mental expectation of what something is supposed to sound like due to internal preconceptions/biases and then find it odd or disconcerting when it sounds different. Especially if that sound is one where we have preconceptions of "cheap, or low quality/poorly made". I get it. I know I've experienced that feeling....just can't remember what it was that caused it (not necessarily a photo item).

 

[105012]

No OS is anything near perfect. But as long as I can pop a terminal, type three or four commands piped together and have it fix something brain damaged, that will suffice.

MacOS is a Unix system, I can pop a terminal, type three or four commands piped together and get it to do what I want any time.