I've noticed an imbalance on RFF

[sf]

We have a huge number of gear threads, people always growing their collections, shifting things around, GASsing, etc. Maybe this is normal. Maybe that is nature, that there will be more talk about gear than about the art since gear is more easily discussed and mutually admired than something as abstract and ethereal as the meaning behind a photograph or a technique.

we have not as much substance flowing into the galleries as one might expect given the vastness of our gear lust.

Sometimes I see very powerful threads slip down the list in relative unimportance beside the superficial topics' bustling activity.

I'm not saying that RFF is full of artless gearheads. No way. This place is crawling with talent and passion. More than I've seen anywhere else on the web.

What I am saying is that sometimes I crave what comes along all too rarely.

Of course, maybe we have the appropriate levels of conversation here, but never notice it because of its sparkling surroundings.

 

[Jacob]

I think You are right on Your observation and I think it is rather sad. Mostly because it reflects my own relation to photography. I really enjoy, and sometimes contribute to, threads like "what would You bring..." or "help me choose among my 136 lenses...", but where does that take me? Pretty much nowhere except away from more important stuff, like scanning my negs or looking at or showing my own pics. I think I will make a rule that I have to upload or comment one pic in the gallery for each gear thread I look at. Maybe we can help each other to focus a little bit more on the art part of photography. I would need that help and I think many of the members here are good at linking the gear topics to the results, ie the pictures, but we could do better. At least I could.
Jacob

 

[sf]

I went out today and just drove aimlessly into the countryside, seeking inspiration. I found it in farms, trails through fields, traintracks, and bridges. Mostly seeking to keep the sun at my back and hoping that the clouds would stay just puffy enough or whispy enough to fulfill my visions of a rural Washington summer.

I made it back home with the fuel needle just below the red "empty" line, having carefully shot two rolls of 120 Rollei IR400.

 

[sf]

I'm a big gear nut - hence the reviews of highly lusty nature on my website, and the prevalence of my GAS on the RFF, but I'm trying to cool those jets and get back into the meat of this passion. Looking over some pictures of myself as a baby, I went through a sort of enlightenment. Just an enlightenment that I'm not doing what I want to be doing. I'm just talking about it.

 

[ChrisN]

I don't think I would describe it as "imbalance", as if there's something wrong. I think the posts reflect the range of interests and the members, and the fact that this forum is about photography with Rangefinder Cameras, and necessarily the discussions will be about rangefinder cameras and lenses and accessories for rangefinder cameras and what is different and unique about rangefinder cameras and photography with rangefinder cameras. If I wanted to discuss only images, with no discussion of the type of equipment and the techniques that produced them, well there are better forums for that. However, this is the Rangefinder Forum; we are centred about rangefinders.

Some of us are as interested in the gear itself and enjoy using the gear and meeting people and talking about the gear, just as much as we enjoy looking at the good photos we occasionally manage to produce. Heck, if I had to justify even one camera on the basis of images produced, I would not be allowed to own a camera at all! Please don't write me off, or feel sad that I enjoy it.

As for the things you crave - lead by example! The range of interests and issues available for discussion is virtually unlimited, as long as the link to rangefinder photography is there.

 

[sf]

good point about the point of an "RF" forum. It IS about rangefinders. I wasn't thinking about that point. Not a good point to miss.

I love RFF. I don't think anything is wrong. Perhaps "imbalance" was the wrong term.

I guess I feel a stronger pool of talent and skill here than anywhere else on the net, so it's natural that I wish the more thoughtful threads were as successful as some of the equally valuable but less fulfilling ones are.

 

[ruben]

Ho shutterflower, I am not much older than you, but for sure not as young. So in my most friendly way, my opinion is that changing human behaviour, wether it is your companion, son, friend, neighbour or RFF members is of the most complex issues of Nature. Achievable, but complex.

The little you can do about it, as I happened to learn so far, works via personal example. Therefore start opening threads of your like, without being deterred if you get less than expected replays, and continue hammering with your own.

I do trust RFF members will like it and many follow suit, sooner or lateer. Don't castigate the negative, but kill it efficiently through showing and enhancing the positive.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[XAos]

I think some of it simply boils down to the fact that its easier to talk about concrete stuff than abstract. I tend to not share my pictures because, well they stink. That and you always get one critic in a crowd who just doesn't know how to offer constructive criticism and do it kindly. Maybe we spend too much time watching American Idol and forget that this is not the proper way to behave.

 

[Silva Lining]

We have a huge number of gear threads, people always growing their collections, shifting things around, GASsing, etc. Maybe this is normal. Maybe that is nature, that there will be more talk about gear than about the art since gear is more easily discussed and mutually admired than something as abstract and ethereal as the meaning behind a photograph or a technique.

we have not as much substance flowing into the galleries as one might expect given the vastness of our gear lust.

Sometimes I see very powerful threads slip down the list in relative unimportance beside the superficial topics' bustling activity.

I'm not saying that RFF is full of artless gearheads. No way. This place is crawling with talent and passion. More than I've seen anywhere else on the web.

What I am saying is that sometimes I crave what comes along all too rarely.

Of course, maybe we have the appropriate levels of conversation here, but never notice it because of its sparkling surroundings.

That's why things like the FSU contest are great. I know I can be on RFF talking about gear when I am at work or in the evenings when at home, and I enjoy it, but this weekend I shall be out with my Zorki 3 and a roll of Kodak HIE to try an capture something half decent for the FSU contest.

 

[Socke]

We have a huge number of gear threads, people always growing their collections, shifting things around, GASsing, etc. Maybe this is normal. Maybe that is nature, that there will be more talk about gear than about the art since gear is more easily discussed and mutually admired than something as abstract and ethereal as the meaning behind a photograph or a technique.

I have an easyer explanation.

I'm the only one using rangefinders whereas all my friends use (d)SLRs and digital P&Ss.
I can, and do, diskuss photography with my physicaly present friends nearly every friday when we meet in a pub and when we go out shooting ocasionaly.
From the six regulars five are photographers and one is cinematographer, one of the photographers and the cinematographer are professionals.
Once in a while we are joined by a freelancing PJ doing motorsports who has regular columns in two magazins and works for Ford and a real paparazi who works for the major german tabloid papers.

I can not diskuss darkroom, scanning and rangefinders since I'm the only one doing this.

This is done with my virtualy present friends at RFF, who share my interests in RFF and B/W 🙂

 

[Sparrow]

People don’t have the vocabulary, the tech stuff is easy to talk about all facts and figures, the aesthetic side requires people to risk an opinion, not an easy thing if you’re unsure of what your words mean. The odd mention of “composition” never moves beyond the word itself because the ground starts getting shaky when you try to define the individual things that make for good image.

 

[juggler]

Some folks here enjoy tinkering with these mechanical cameras, taking them apart to fix or restore them before taking photos with them. It gives a sense of satisfaction too.

I have taken loads of film ever since discoverig RFF. But I have not contributed much to the gallery because I do not have a scanner. Perhaps that's another reason why the gallery is not teeming with photos as you think it should?

 

[Jocko]

This may just be me, but I think there is also tendency for people to stick to sections dealing with the cameras they use and know, so those who might want to talk about creative issues simply do not "meet".

I cannot agree with Sparrow's comments however. At least part of the problem with any discussion is that "those in the know" create a technical vocabulary designed to exclude others and not to facilitate discourse. Knowing that is no advantage.

Unless - of course - I misunderstood, and Sparrow was taking a Socratic position, arguing that we rarely appreciate the implications of our statements and opinions. In which case, the way to put this right is to talk. As Ruben says, post!

Cheers, Ian

 

[ChrisN]

Another thought - talking about our cameras and gear is a celebration of its potential, looking forward to the future, and opportunities for capturing good photos, optmistic and confident that our equipment is good for the job. My cameras are enablers.

By contrast, a photo in my gallery is a statement about my past, sometimes about my inadequacies as a photographer, and very occasionally evidence that with luck and perseverance a good image will result.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

I think all of you in the posts above raise valid points re the desire to share equipment delights and the need or desire to post more critical observations/comments on members' individual pictures. To see good work is certainly very inspirational.
I think the spirit here seems in balance with what this forum is about (at least my understanding of it). For example - I must say i was very pleased that members took the time to download my rather large PDF of an ongoing project. I wasn't really expecting much feedback i just wanted to post a HU as to what i was working on - as i feel RFF is a good platform to present such projects. I'm just as happy to contribute, debate and get excited about gear threads except perhaps the M8 which i feel for safety reasons i should keep away from..... 😀

 

[ruben]

I don't think I would describe it as "imbalance", as if there's something wrong. I think the posts reflect the range of interests and the members, ....

Hi Chris,
Kindly allow me to express a contradictory opinion to yours. The RFF reflects the s p o n t a n e o u s input of its members, not necessarily all our interests within photography.

I too, like you, enjoy very much the gear chat. Who says we cannot enjoy as well from artistic or historic or biographic aspects of photography ? We do come back from work by evening, but we do wake up in the morning too. And there are those nice weekends too.

What is the RFF all about?
Not only gear, for sure. We have here an outstanding variety of issues, because somehow, the RFF is about us, RF photographers who are also human beings with a lot of interests interconnecting with our RF cameras (and we have a lot of talk also about non RF cameras too!!).

I am 100% sure that our friend shutterflower is expressing a wider concern than his own. Mine too, for example. It is my opinion that we all should embrace and encuourage this concern, as we all want a bigger and bigger family.

Thank you for your attention and
Cheers
Ruben


PS: I repeat it again although OT: Aussy sellers the best at eBay!

 

[FrankS]

The responses to George's post have all been very thoughtful and I believe accurate.As Chris said: "Lead by example."

 

[RML]

I'll lead: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=24478 .

 

[Bill58]

The RFF forum comments are a big improvement and more helpful than the LUG forum where there seems be a lot of needless bickering and often personal acrimony over nothing. It seems that the RFFers are less eccentric and perhaps even a younger crowd. However, the LUG has some awesome photos. Here there are less photos and more "Rah-Rah" over Russian, etc. cameras. Nothing's perfect I guess...........

Bill

 

[oftheherd]

Just my personal opinion, as others have said, balance enough. There are plenty of threads on gear, as befits an rf forum. There are a reasonable amount of comments in the galleries as befits people who are careful not to offend.

That is the problem with critiques of photos. If you are going to be honest, and why shouldn't you be, you will eventually offend someone, or many people. And that doesn't mean a person giving an honest but somewhat negative critique is intending to be mean or offensive. I mentioned in another thread a few days ago the reaction to some of the photographs I took, that always amazed me. Some I thought were really good got little comment, others that I thought were crap or marginal at best, got much good comment. It got to where I looked forward to that trying to figure out what made people do it.

That doesn't mean I felt good when my "good" photos weren't greeted with outstanding reviews. But, I tried to be big about it and learn. Sometimes I succeeeded. One thing I would suggest for anyone who wants to get some experience at critiqueing photos, either from doing it or watching others, go to the Readers Gallery at PP&I. There is a lot of traffic there in photos, good and bad, and critiques good and bad. I don't post there as often as I used to. I always tried to be honest, but in a nice way. That is important. Of course, come back here for the best photography forum.

Just my two cents.