FrankS
Registered User
If a picture (in the gallery) is worth 1000 words, I think we're pretty balanced.
I've noticed an imbalance on RFF
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FrankS
Registered User
That might be true, but that's not what i'm here for. I can get butchered over at Pnet if that's what I want. Bill, you and wtl should start up a glee club.
tkluck
Well-known
This is a forum about rangefinder cameras. Most of the rangefinder cameras in the world are, let's face it, old cameras. No factory repair, no new parts, no batteries, no corner camera store, no new flash bulbs, no "Rangefinder Cameras for Dummys", and instruction manuals in Russian (if you have one at all).
There will of necessity be a heavy emphasis on "gear". Just to get and keep these relics of a bygone era up and running.
We were all drawn here because of a common interest in a specific type of technology. That does not mean that we are interested in that machinery for the same reasons.
Suppose this was a sports car forum. Some people tinker with them, some drive them to work, some race them, and some wax them and keep them in a garage. Sure you can buy a new sports car. You can buy a fully restored one too. But once again most of the sports cars in the world are old. Most were finicky even when they were new. Most of the discussion will be about the "gear". True, some will regard them as a "tool" or as a means to an end, or something small and handy to tow behind the Winnebago. (alright, so I'm equating picking up chicks with artistic expression. No analogy is perfect...)
Aesthetics, substance, passion, in other words "art". Is a bloody difficult subject to talk about. There are as many pitfalls in discussing art as in discussing religion. Generally, like religion, it is often a subject better avoided for the sake of harmony. I know that smacks of blasphemy in some circles, but them again that also illustrates the problem.
It is without question fine thing to encourage the discussion of what makes a good photograph, both in term of the technical and the technique. It is perilous to discuss art in a very diverse enviornment.
Compared with similar forums on subject ranging from toy trains to cabinet making, RFF is in swell shape and doing better than most!
There will of necessity be a heavy emphasis on "gear". Just to get and keep these relics of a bygone era up and running.
We were all drawn here because of a common interest in a specific type of technology. That does not mean that we are interested in that machinery for the same reasons.
Suppose this was a sports car forum. Some people tinker with them, some drive them to work, some race them, and some wax them and keep them in a garage. Sure you can buy a new sports car. You can buy a fully restored one too. But once again most of the sports cars in the world are old. Most were finicky even when they were new. Most of the discussion will be about the "gear". True, some will regard them as a "tool" or as a means to an end, or something small and handy to tow behind the Winnebago. (alright, so I'm equating picking up chicks with artistic expression. No analogy is perfect...)
Aesthetics, substance, passion, in other words "art". Is a bloody difficult subject to talk about. There are as many pitfalls in discussing art as in discussing religion. Generally, like religion, it is often a subject better avoided for the sake of harmony. I know that smacks of blasphemy in some circles, but them again that also illustrates the problem.
It is without question fine thing to encourage the discussion of what makes a good photograph, both in term of the technical and the technique. It is perilous to discuss art in a very diverse enviornment.
Compared with similar forums on subject ranging from toy trains to cabinet making, RFF is in swell shape and doing better than most!
ywenz
Veteran
bmattock said:
Bill why the hate? Leicas are meant to be used right? You really think everyone are buying Leicas to baby them?
If you spent the money on a M7 why would you walk around with a crappy Kiev or Fed on most days??
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Beniliam
Out of the limelight
The reality and the desire is the tittle of one book of the spanish poet: Luis Cernuda.
One thing is our desire and other is that happen in the reality.
I feel to contradictory sensations... perhaps I would wish another type of things for the forum... but I cant change the reality. Go the things wrong because I think different? NO.
In one community with many members its normal that its broken the habitual union...
I like the cameras, but I like more the photos that are able to do with one camera.
I like my hands, but I like more the hands of one beutiful woman.
I understand that this is one forum of rangefinder cameras, (I love rangefinder cameras), but love more the photography. And dont understand the vanity of buy the best lens, the best camera, the best, the best... if we are not the best in anything (but I understand this human behavior of obtain always the best). I think that buying expensive equipment for cover our insecurities like people/ photographers.
Possibly Im one of the youngest of all the forum, I do not want to sin of imprudent , but:
Then bitter the truth,
I want to throw of the mouth,
and if the soul his bitterness touches
hide it is nonsense.
Poor translation of one Letrilla Satirica (Satirical Leter) of Francisco de Quevedo, the great spanish poet of the baroque.
One thing is our desire and other is that happen in the reality.
I feel to contradictory sensations... perhaps I would wish another type of things for the forum... but I cant change the reality. Go the things wrong because I think different? NO.
In one community with many members its normal that its broken the habitual union...
I like the cameras, but I like more the photos that are able to do with one camera.
I like my hands, but I like more the hands of one beutiful woman.
I understand that this is one forum of rangefinder cameras, (I love rangefinder cameras), but love more the photography. And dont understand the vanity of buy the best lens, the best camera, the best, the best... if we are not the best in anything (but I understand this human behavior of obtain always the best). I think that buying expensive equipment for cover our insecurities like people/ photographers.
Possibly Im one of the youngest of all the forum, I do not want to sin of imprudent , but:
Then bitter the truth,
I want to throw of the mouth,
and if the soul his bitterness touches
hide it is nonsense.
Poor translation of one Letrilla Satirica (Satirical Leter) of Francisco de Quevedo, the great spanish poet of the baroque.
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W
wtl
Guest
ywenz said:
lots of them are. and then they come back with stuff from their digi or film p&s.
FrankS
Registered User
Beniliam said:
David, I remember that you too had questions about camera gear, for steady hand-holding and which lenses are sharp.
It is not always vanity to want the best camera/sharpest lenses, nor is it always to cover up insecurity.
S
Simon Larbalestier
Guest
Beniliam said:
Beniliam you may be one of the youngest but so what? age doesn't matter! - you make strong pictures and you write with sensitivity and that is what counts 🙂
which bring me to the point that I think RFF is as much about the personalities of its members as much as it is about discussing gear and the making/presenting of photographs.
Beniliam
Out of the limelight
Certain, Frank.
I had a lot of messages with questions about lens and cameras.
But also I have treated talk about photography, photographs, scans...
You are right. Not all black or white. 🙂
I had a lot of messages with questions about lens and cameras.
But also I have treated talk about photography, photographs, scans...
You are right. Not all black or white. 🙂
K
Kyle
Guest
Beniliam said:
Its just part of the hobby. If you're really into cameras, its kinda natural to lust after something like a Leica, because it is supposed to be the top-tier of the rangefinder world. If you can afford to buy the Leica, more power to you. My buddy is not into cameras, so he wouldn't ever spend the money I do on my rangefinders. However, he recently bought a $1200 Fender Jazz bass and then a lot more money on amps and other stuff I know nothing about. I'd never spend that kind of money on that stuff. Is he a rock star? No. Does the expensive equipment make him play better? Of course not, but his interests are in music, and he likes to have a nice guitar because he can afford it. I think that most people have hobbies and interests in one or two particular areas, and if given the chance they'd probably buy the best thing they could afford. For me thats a camera, for my brother it was a brand new shotgun last year.
Hopefully all of that makes sense.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
I am not sure that it does. Most of us probably have different tastes in music, in clothes, drink, food, whatever. The same must be true of photographs. I was in Paris recently and of course did the Louvre. The place is immense but you can only do a small part at a time or you become punch drunk. I could walk through some galleries with world renowned masterpieces that did nothing for me. Do I say I don't like it or move on? If I say nothing,am I wrong? Go to the next gallery and a nondescript painting catches my eye so I say I like it. It's not well renowned or an important work.
IMHO, it is better to say nothing than make something up and just because a photo or painting is not you, doesn't make it a bad one or a criticism if you say silent.
Kim
IMHO, it is better to say nothing than make something up and just because a photo or painting is not you, doesn't make it a bad one or a criticism if you say silent.
Kim
wtl said:
sf
Veteran
Yes. This is the place for rangefinder adoration. Certainly, the level of gear lust here is appropriate - and it really mirrors my own feelings for cameras - but I just sometimes wish there were some more artistically constructive work going on. I think there should be more "contests" like the HCB contest, that push the members to direct their passions not only onto the tools of the craft, but also into production.
Not necessarily gear contests where people win cameras and lenses, but something motivational. Something to light a fire under the creativity machine.
BUT : RF photography is its own style. One can come here to discuss the style as easily as the RF camera itself, and still find that such conversations can be held nearly nowhere else.
Maybe my problem is that I have no other social surroundings in which to BE a photographer, so I want it all, now, here.
Not necessarily gear contests where people win cameras and lenses, but something motivational. Something to light a fire under the creativity machine.
BUT : RF photography is its own style. One can come here to discuss the style as easily as the RF camera itself, and still find that such conversations can be held nearly nowhere else.
Maybe my problem is that I have no other social surroundings in which to BE a photographer, so I want it all, now, here.
raid
Dad Photographer
This topic pops up on many photography websites and it is a natural thing to think about. I once challenged us to have one month of GAS withdrawal during last march. Collecting lots of equipment and talking about the cameras and lenses and accesories can be part of the joy of being a photographer. It is equally important, if not more, to go out and take photos with that same equipment. I have to admit that my gallery in the RFF is pretty much empty because I have plenty of photos loaded up at PN and I don't have so much time to load up images at several websites. I do, however, give links to my photos on PN when I have a thread about photos.
I love old mechanical cameras with wonderful lenses that are first quality, such as German lenses by Zeiss and Leitz and Schneider. I smile when I hold in my hands a camera and lens in preparation for using them the next day. The next day, I place them back on the table to grab another camera and lens in preparation for the next day. It is great that I am able to have such an expenisve hobby, and I was as happy with less camera gear when I was a poor student.
There is room for both activties; collecting gear and to use that gear.
I love old mechanical cameras with wonderful lenses that are first quality, such as German lenses by Zeiss and Leitz and Schneider. I smile when I hold in my hands a camera and lens in preparation for using them the next day. The next day, I place them back on the table to grab another camera and lens in preparation for the next day. It is great that I am able to have such an expenisve hobby, and I was as happy with less camera gear when I was a poor student.
There is room for both activties; collecting gear and to use that gear.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
There are two very distinct worlds here at RFF. One is image oriented the other is hardware oriented.
When I first came to RFF I spent about 2 weeks in the galleries. I went through every last one of them. I also commented. I would look at the Forum section and wonder what that discussion stuff was all about. Frankly I still do. But the forum is a relatively cordial place. There are some trolls but mostly RFF forums are inhabited by newbies, advice seekers, seasoned pros, and jovial and sometimes not so jovial chat.
I became involved in the RFF discussions and threads to participate and be a member. I believe if you join you participate. However I think Shutterflower is onto something. I have raised this point on several other occasions. The response is usually pretty much as he described. A brief moment on the top of the RFF forum thread list and then … gone. I think the response shows the interest level, which at best can fairly be described as low.
Now I respond to the forums the same way as the forums have responded to me. Very little time is spent there anymore. I am back at the galleries. There are some excellent photographs and some that are ‘family oriented’ or “equipment related” however the latter two usually come from the hardware section. Others like we all know are excellent photographers. Some of their work seems non descript on first look, but eventually their image catches and you learn something. I like the image section. That’s where I hang out and I believe that is where people like Benilam are too. That’s fine with me.
Simply put I’m interested in the Galleries. There are two worlds here at RFF just look at the front page and you can see; images and a forum. Most days I’m in the images.
Shutterflower, good luck and remember, you got a camera, you like it, use it.
You know what I mean. See you in the galleries.
When I first came to RFF I spent about 2 weeks in the galleries. I went through every last one of them. I also commented. I would look at the Forum section and wonder what that discussion stuff was all about. Frankly I still do. But the forum is a relatively cordial place. There are some trolls but mostly RFF forums are inhabited by newbies, advice seekers, seasoned pros, and jovial and sometimes not so jovial chat.
I became involved in the RFF discussions and threads to participate and be a member. I believe if you join you participate. However I think Shutterflower is onto something. I have raised this point on several other occasions. The response is usually pretty much as he described. A brief moment on the top of the RFF forum thread list and then … gone. I think the response shows the interest level, which at best can fairly be described as low.
Now I respond to the forums the same way as the forums have responded to me. Very little time is spent there anymore. I am back at the galleries. There are some excellent photographs and some that are ‘family oriented’ or “equipment related” however the latter two usually come from the hardware section. Others like we all know are excellent photographers. Some of their work seems non descript on first look, but eventually their image catches and you learn something. I like the image section. That’s where I hang out and I believe that is where people like Benilam are too. That’s fine with me.
Simply put I’m interested in the Galleries. There are two worlds here at RFF just look at the front page and you can see; images and a forum. Most days I’m in the images.
Shutterflower, good luck and remember, you got a camera, you like it, use it.
You know what I mean. See you in the galleries.
FrankS
Registered User
but I just sometimes wish there were some more artistically constructive work going on
Please see the galleries!
Please see the galleries!
sf
Veteran
FrankS said:
oh, well, yes - of course!
I meant something more than just that. But, I really don't know what that would be. Something that brings it together. Something that lends a platform to those gallery posters and thread starters that will bring the art side of things to a higher level.
THis is just one of those threads that goes in circles. I was tired last night and felt like saying something.
Ergo
Observer
"A picture is worth a thousand words"
kmack
do your job, then let go
Of course it is a thread that goes in circles. It is a thread about art, artfullness, and artyness. 🙂 Art (with a capital A) is a subject that will forever be out of reach. Styles come and go and come back again, personal taste and a cultures taste will mutate and change. If you check the forums you will find alot about art. Sometimes it is hidden in the gear stuff. A lot of times it is buried under piles of bull flop. You have to look. If you find an old thread that you find relevant, revive it.shutterflower said:
My take:
The history of the graphic arts is one of the longest art histories of all. Film was one of latest media in that body. Film photography is a mature art form. I may be wrong but I do not think that any new ground breaking work will be done with film. Meaningful and beautiful work will still be done in film,
Film photography is as much craft as art. To master the craft you have to master the tools. If you master the tools you then have a chance to create art. Most of us are still on the mastering the tools part. Heck some of us still don't know what tools we can become comfortable with. Hence the gear talk. Don't worry, we all really do share your passion about art, it's just that some of us find the art in the tools we use.
ywenz
Veteran
FrankS said:
Try flickr for that. Not gonna find it here. RFF = gear talk. Flickr = image viewing.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have just uploaded about twenty photos into my gallery. Some were taken in Italy, some were taken in the subway system in Japan, and the rest are nature photos.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=3565
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=3565
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