jupiter 12 hits rangefinder arm

[btaylor541]

Hello all, I am new here. I recently took the plunge and picked up a FED 2, an early FED 3, a Kiev 4A and a few lenses. I am starting to sort them out and shoot tests. I find that the Jupiter 12 (35mm) LTM won't quite fit either of the FEDs. The barrel of the lens hits the rangefinder arm. Has anyone else had this issue? I am figuring I should file the barrel? Since I have the problem with both bodies, I am guessing the lens is at fault, but I don't know.

I also picked up a Russar 20mm LTM, this also has the barrel fouling the rangefinder arm issue, but it is much greater. Anyone have this experience?

Overall it has been fun learning how to use these, they are so capable, especially the optics. Thanks for any help you can provide.

- Bruce

 

[Keith]

I seem to remember someone mentioning this in another thread and the fix was to bend the arm up just far enough to clear.

Please don't do that until it's confirmed though ... I wouldn't want to be responsible for damaging a FED! 😀

 

[gb hill]

Don't file anything! Seems I read that you just need to slightly bend the arm so the cam will line up with the adjusting mechanism on the lens. Try taking the back off & open the curtains by holding open in B mode & look to see where both line up & go from there!

 

[gb hill]

I seem to remember someone mentioning this in another thread and the fix was to bend the arm up just far enough to clear.

Please don't do that until it's confirmed though ... I wouldn't want to be responsible for damaging a FED! 😀

We must of read the same thread!...😀.......exactally, don't break it!

 

[btaylor541]

Thanks for the tips. I was concerned about bending the arm and knocking the rangefinder out of whack. I don't want to get into rangefinder re-ajustment if I don't have to (not at this point in the game, anyway).

 

[stevebrot]

Thanks for the tips. I was concerned about bending the arm and knocking the rangefinder out of whack. I don't want to get into rangefinder re-ajustment if I don't have to (not at this point in the game, anyway).

I had the same problem with my FED-2/Jupiter-12 combo and bending the arm upwards is indeed a workable fix. It does not require much, so take it easy using gentle pressure. Unfortunately, it will likely change the rangefinder calibration, so check it after you are done. Adjusting the RF is fairly easy, but requires a VERY fine-headed screwdriver. I purchased a 0.8mm Wiha driver from micro-tools.com (http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=26008 WPSS008040A) specifically for this task.

Good luck and happy shooting!


Steve

 

[konicaman]

Usually no problem - as mentioned above the rangefinder arm just needs a little upward pressure. There is a detailed explanation here:

http://www.griffinbyteworks.com/photography/equipment/jupiter12.html

It is suggested to use pliers, but I have done this to 3 FED 2s just using my fingers (and in several small steps). No problems or readjustment needed on any of the 3 cameras.

 

[btaylor541]

Thanks konicaman, that is a great link! I ended up sending all of the gear to Jerry Sorin who took care of the arm clearance problems as well as some other camera and lens issues. He did great work, BTW, and his charges are extremely reasonable. I got lucky with most of the gear, tests show most of the lenses to be very sharp with nice color rendition. Can't wait to spend some time running a lot of film through them. The Kiev 4a has been especially nice to use.

 

[DanOnRoute66]

I'm curious as to why you would get cameras in both LTM and Contax/Kiev bayonet mount? You must be a glutton for extra punishment! 😉

 

[stevebrot]

I'm curious as to why you would get cameras in both LTM and Contax/Kiev bayonet mount? You must be a glutton for extra punishment! 😉

...I have both...


Steve

(...punish me some more...PLEASE! I have been VERY bad!)

 

[btaylor541]

I'm curious as to why you would get cameras in both LTM and Contax/Kiev bayonet mount? You must be a glutton for extra punishment! 😉

So I could buy twice as much stuff that needs work! :bang:

As a teenager I had a well worn Contax I couldn't afford to service, but I always liked the way it handled. I never owned an LTM or M mount camera and wondered what they were like, so I thought I would try the FSU copies. The Feds operate very well, though I still prefer the Contax/Kiev-- I really can't say why. I got lucky with the Kiev I think, it operates very smoothly-- the J-8 and J-12 are very sharp and pleasing. Now I'm looking for a clean, not-to-expensive J-9 for the Contax/Kiev. The J-9 I got for the Feds is extremely sharp and contrasty, I'll need to use some sort of light diffusion to use it for portraits.

 

[DanOnRoute66]

I'm not knocking either system. As did another poster I liked the Contax RFs very much but could never afford one. Then I learned about the Kiev copies and bought a few bodies and lenses when they were much, much cheaper in the U.S. than they are today (but oddly, harder to find). I still own a Kiev-IIa and a few lenses for it, a kit that I like very much.

 

[Daimon]

Looks like my FED 2 has exactly the same problem with two Jupiter 12 I own.

Any suggestions on fixes apart from bending rangefinder arm? I'm capable of disassembling camera so looking for a bit better solution if available. As I understand rangefinder arm needs to be mounted higher

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Can you post some pictures?

Some J-12's have a metal band around the back. Others- not, the glass is bare.
The diameter of the rear glass is 30mm on my J-12 LTM that have never given problems.
The Metal Band of some J-12's is 32mm, which can hang up.

 

[Daimon]

Adjustable rangefinder arm "part" (sensor/cam ?) rubs just very slightly on J12 rear glass element (coated side of it, not the main clear surface). I also verified it's not any other element in camera.

Same lense moves without any problems on Leotax F.

By eyeballing it it looks that very small amount of clearence is missing. Actually it "catches" only near min focusing distance where I can even hear (and see in RF window) that it catches when focusing.

Slight bending probably would solve a problem but looking at bit better solutions if any available 🙂

I can provide photos in about 1 week, currently not able to prepare any

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Any bending might knock the RF out of calibration, or even damage the mechanism.

I just checked my 1960 J-12 on my 1955 Zorki-3M: no problems with the RF Cam follower jamming on the rear element.

One thing to check: is the lens focusing accurately? I've had to add Shims to both J-12's before, up to 0.5mm. If a shim is too thick, or not thick enough: that will change the location of the rear elements with respect to the RF cam follower.

 

[Coldkennels]

Any bending might knock the RF out of calibration, or even damage the mechanism.

I just checked my 1960 J-12 on my 1955 Zorki-3M: no problems with the RF Cam follower jamming on the rear element.

One thing to check: is the lens focusing accurately? I've had to add Shims to both J-12's before, up to 0.5mm. If a shim is too thick, or not thick enough: that will change the location of the rear elements with respect to the RF cam follower.

Brian, this is a common problem with FED-2s - and only FED 2s, for some reason. No Zorki or other FED has this issue. The FED 2 just has a slightly lower RF cam follower, and I don't think it matters which iteration of the "STM" Jupiter 12 you have.

Personally, I went for the bending approach. It only needs to move a small amount upwards, and recalibrating both ends of the rangefinder - 1m and infinity - is so easy on a FED that it really wasn't a problem. I'm sure that if someone wanted to do it properly, they could remove it and do some proper modification to position the RF cam follower slightly higher up without the subtle application of force - but is it really worth that work when a bit of pressure will do the same job?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

My Fed-2 does not hang up on the 1960 LTM J-12. No change felt in focusing, no jump on the RF.

I suspect tolerances are responsible, as is change in the design. I've had early -1950- LTM J-12 hang up on a Canon, it had the metal collar like the KMZ Kiev/Contax mount lenses. The 1952 KMZ LTM J-12, no collar. The 1960 KMZ Contax/Kiev mount lens- has a metal collar, which holds in the rear-most element.

Interesting- the collar for the RF window of the Fed-2 fits a Canon P perfectly.

 

[Coldkennels]

My Fed-2 does not hang up on the 1960 LTM J-12. No change felt in focusing, no jump on the RF.

I suspect tolerances are responsible, as is change in the design. I've had early -1950- LTM J-12 hang up on a Canon, it had the metal collar like the KMZ Kiev/Contax mount lenses. The 1952 KMZ LTM J-12, no collar. The 1960 KMZ Contax/Kiev mount lens- has a metal collar, which holds in the rear-most element.

Interesting- the collar for the RF window of the Fed-2 fits a Canon P perfectly.

I've seen it happen with multiple late Jupiter 12s on multiple FED 2s - my current J12 is from the 70s, if I remember right, and I've had multiple FED 2s, early and later. None of the lenses had the metal collar/surround at the rear.

Maybe your FED was "modified" before it came to you?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I bought three of them- $5 each, as-is,for repair/parts. I did not modify this one. One was clearly modified with a different cam follower.

These are old cameras and lenses- hard to know what was done to them.