jimithing616
James B - MPLS, MN
So, I was perusing the ole list de la craig for my hometown of Minneapolis as I do regularly. You never know when a Leica M7 is going to get posted for sale by a widow for "best offer just want it gone" (yea right...)
And I see a Leitz Minolta CL with a 40mm M-Rokkor for sale for 400 bucks, rated in 8/10 condition. With the Meter WORKING and having had a CLA at some point in the recent past by a Local repair guy with a very good reputation.
I ended up talking the guy down to 350 as there was a little nick in the front left corner near the shutter speed dial, but other than that this CL is internally one of the cleanest I think you could ever find.
After getting it home I did some research on what to look for on a CL to determine its condition and literally everything came up 100% perfect. The mirror in the little rangefinder window is cleaner than my dinner plate when mom makes sloppy joes.
The meter is as accurate as my Gossen, the shutter speeds are tack on accurate (compared to 4 other camera's which I know are all perfect). The VF window is so clean its amazing (like 2 microscopic specks of dust), the RF patch is spot on accurate at infinity, and at 2 meters, measured with a measuring tape, it is also perfectly aligned vertically as well. The RF patch is pretty contrasty, although it does suffer from "white out" a bit when I look at a 100w bulb directly from 5 feet away, haha.
I would say its about 70% the contrast/clearness of my M4-p, and of course its smaller.. from what I have read this is about perfect for a CL, is that correct?
The meter has been adjusted to work with normal non-mercury batteries at the same time it and the rest of the camera were overhauled. Shutter speeds were made or confirmed to be 100% spot on too during CLA, basically he gave it the full professional CLA job top to bottom, the film advance is so silky smooth and the shutter has a great, strong, re-assuring click to it. Its just a great camera. And the meter.... it WORKS
The lens is also in great shape. The aperture blades look brand new, no discoloration, no fungus, no haze, no seperation AT ALL... infact there isn't even any dust... I have never seen a lens without dust... but there's none... I gotta ask him how he does it. My newest lens is the kit lens that came with my sony NEX and its like 3 months old, and it has dust... what the heck!
Anyway, the 40mm Rokkor is the CLE version with better coatings and the M style focusing cam, better construction or whatever, etc. Which makes it (according to an ebay search) the most valuable of the 40mm Rokkors. The front glass looks like it did the day it left the factory, because the guy I bought it from (original owner) had a B+W filter on it since day one, which he also included!! The focus is smoother than butter, and the aperture clicks are so nice...so so nice. The ONLY and I mean ONLY downside is that the barrel has a "brassing" look to it (only its not brass to my knowledge) so the paint is just fading a bit, no dings or scratches, only area is has this wear is the focus ring from being focussed. The lens was also CLA'ed at the same time.
Anyway, I was in the market for a 40mm Rokkor of this same condition, and I had JUST lost one on ebay, outbid at like 410 bucks, same shape, internally flawless, barrel showing a tiny bit of wear... which would have been a good deal at 410... I see them selling in the 500's all the time like this... and those aren't even the CLE versions!! so to get the lens, with the CL body, in the condition its in with a perfect meter... I think I scored big time! I love this camera!!
Oh, and besides the free b+w MRC filter ($50 value) he also threw in a brand new, basically never used Leica strap ($30 value), the one that comes with the M9's I believe. And 6 rolls of brand new in the box Ilfrod B&W film!!
Sorry that got really long, I am just excited. For those of you who know me, you know I am quite young, broke, working my butt off, and I love film photography... so to get a score like this was really really cool! I will enjoy it for many years to come!
Anyway, I was just hoping you guys could give me some pointers on the CL/40mm combo... things like quirks they have, neat factoids, history, your experiences, best film to use with the 40mm, your favorite shots with this combo if you have some! anything you can add about this camera I would love to know, I just got it yesterday and I am dying to get out and shoot it after work tonight! I have read 4-5 articles on it but I am sure there are other, more personal things you guys can tell me!
I would really appreciate it and thank you for reading my gloat/ramble!!
And I see a Leitz Minolta CL with a 40mm M-Rokkor for sale for 400 bucks, rated in 8/10 condition. With the Meter WORKING and having had a CLA at some point in the recent past by a Local repair guy with a very good reputation.
I ended up talking the guy down to 350 as there was a little nick in the front left corner near the shutter speed dial, but other than that this CL is internally one of the cleanest I think you could ever find.
After getting it home I did some research on what to look for on a CL to determine its condition and literally everything came up 100% perfect. The mirror in the little rangefinder window is cleaner than my dinner plate when mom makes sloppy joes.
The meter is as accurate as my Gossen, the shutter speeds are tack on accurate (compared to 4 other camera's which I know are all perfect). The VF window is so clean its amazing (like 2 microscopic specks of dust), the RF patch is spot on accurate at infinity, and at 2 meters, measured with a measuring tape, it is also perfectly aligned vertically as well. The RF patch is pretty contrasty, although it does suffer from "white out" a bit when I look at a 100w bulb directly from 5 feet away, haha.
I would say its about 70% the contrast/clearness of my M4-p, and of course its smaller.. from what I have read this is about perfect for a CL, is that correct?
The meter has been adjusted to work with normal non-mercury batteries at the same time it and the rest of the camera were overhauled. Shutter speeds were made or confirmed to be 100% spot on too during CLA, basically he gave it the full professional CLA job top to bottom, the film advance is so silky smooth and the shutter has a great, strong, re-assuring click to it. Its just a great camera. And the meter.... it WORKS
The lens is also in great shape. The aperture blades look brand new, no discoloration, no fungus, no haze, no seperation AT ALL... infact there isn't even any dust... I have never seen a lens without dust... but there's none... I gotta ask him how he does it. My newest lens is the kit lens that came with my sony NEX and its like 3 months old, and it has dust... what the heck!
Anyway, the 40mm Rokkor is the CLE version with better coatings and the M style focusing cam, better construction or whatever, etc. Which makes it (according to an ebay search) the most valuable of the 40mm Rokkors. The front glass looks like it did the day it left the factory, because the guy I bought it from (original owner) had a B+W filter on it since day one, which he also included!! The focus is smoother than butter, and the aperture clicks are so nice...so so nice. The ONLY and I mean ONLY downside is that the barrel has a "brassing" look to it (only its not brass to my knowledge) so the paint is just fading a bit, no dings or scratches, only area is has this wear is the focus ring from being focussed. The lens was also CLA'ed at the same time.
Anyway, I was in the market for a 40mm Rokkor of this same condition, and I had JUST lost one on ebay, outbid at like 410 bucks, same shape, internally flawless, barrel showing a tiny bit of wear... which would have been a good deal at 410... I see them selling in the 500's all the time like this... and those aren't even the CLE versions!! so to get the lens, with the CL body, in the condition its in with a perfect meter... I think I scored big time! I love this camera!!
Oh, and besides the free b+w MRC filter ($50 value) he also threw in a brand new, basically never used Leica strap ($30 value), the one that comes with the M9's I believe. And 6 rolls of brand new in the box Ilfrod B&W film!!
Sorry that got really long, I am just excited. For those of you who know me, you know I am quite young, broke, working my butt off, and I love film photography... so to get a score like this was really really cool! I will enjoy it for many years to come!
Anyway, I was just hoping you guys could give me some pointers on the CL/40mm combo... things like quirks they have, neat factoids, history, your experiences, best film to use with the 40mm, your favorite shots with this combo if you have some! anything you can add about this camera I would love to know, I just got it yesterday and I am dying to get out and shoot it after work tonight! I have read 4-5 articles on it but I am sure there are other, more personal things you guys can tell me!
I would really appreciate it and thank you for reading my gloat/ramble!!
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Wow, that's a terrific buy! I'd be telling everybody too! Go have some fun with that setup -- see about getting a proper hood for it (40.5mm, I think). The Heavystar ones you see on eBay are very good and a lot cheaper than the genuine Minolta rubber article.
MiniMoke
Well-known
I wish you a whole lot of fun with the CL and Rokkor!!
Only quirks are a meter that's too optimistic in low light!
Otherwise a perfect combo.... You make me regret my sale already!! Know what I mean.
Only quirks are a meter that's too optimistic in low light!
Otherwise a perfect combo.... You make me regret my sale already!! Know what I mean.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
A lovely camera surely, maybe the best M around for travelling!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Sounds like you got a terrific deal! My current CL and 40mm (same as yours) cost me about twice that, and I felt I got a good deal on them. (They were, however, bought separately and at different times.)
The M9 strap doesn't really work with the CL very well, IMO. The CL's strap lugs are designed for flat strap connections and the camera hangs sideways, which I've found to be annoying. I bought a Lance strap with the thread ends and a Mr. Zhou half-case, so it hangs normally now. The Zhou case isn't as nice as the A&A half case or the Luigi half case, but for less than a hundred bucks I'm not complaining. ;-)
BTW, the M-Rokkor 90mm f/4, at least the early ones, is exactly the same lens as the Leitz Elmar-C 90mm f/4 with the exception of saying M-Rokkor and having a 40.5mm JIS threaded filter mount instead of the Leitz Series 5.5 filter mount. Leitz designed and manufactured them both in Wetzlar. Later examples, after the CL was discontinued, were produced in Japan.
A CL, the 40 and 90, add a 21 or 24mm lens ... it's a near perfect, compact 35mm camera kit.
G
The M9 strap doesn't really work with the CL very well, IMO. The CL's strap lugs are designed for flat strap connections and the camera hangs sideways, which I've found to be annoying. I bought a Lance strap with the thread ends and a Mr. Zhou half-case, so it hangs normally now. The Zhou case isn't as nice as the A&A half case or the Luigi half case, but for less than a hundred bucks I'm not complaining. ;-)
BTW, the M-Rokkor 90mm f/4, at least the early ones, is exactly the same lens as the Leitz Elmar-C 90mm f/4 with the exception of saying M-Rokkor and having a 40.5mm JIS threaded filter mount instead of the Leitz Series 5.5 filter mount. Leitz designed and manufactured them both in Wetzlar. Later examples, after the CL was discontinued, were produced in Japan.
A CL, the 40 and 90, add a 21 or 24mm lens ... it's a near perfect, compact 35mm camera kit.
G
jimithing616
James B - MPLS, MN
Godfrey, or anyone who has an opinion,
Any experience on the contrast of the CL's RF patch and the bright lines, shutter speed indicator in the VF and what not... are they supposed to be a little hard to see in low light? harder to see than my m4-p's brightlines? I mean they arent bad, the patch, in normal, brightish, and foggy light are pretty good, not M4-P good, but definitely more than good.
What is your experience with this, I had commented that the all around visibility of the patch, brightlines, and other emposed things were around 70% as visible as the m4-p's framelines... is this about what you experience?
I cannot imagine that there would be any reason mine would be worse than, or less visible than, a brand new Cl in mint condition. As to my eye, inside the tiny RF window, the mirror, or silver coated prism thing, looks brand new and clean/clear. I also checked for separation, haze, etc and there is none. the VF window on the side my eye goes up to it has a few tiny specs of dust but they are not even slightly visible when my eye is up to the VF and I cannot imagine these would effect the super-imposed patch and other stuff.
what do ya'll think?
Any experience on the contrast of the CL's RF patch and the bright lines, shutter speed indicator in the VF and what not... are they supposed to be a little hard to see in low light? harder to see than my m4-p's brightlines? I mean they arent bad, the patch, in normal, brightish, and foggy light are pretty good, not M4-P good, but definitely more than good.
What is your experience with this, I had commented that the all around visibility of the patch, brightlines, and other emposed things were around 70% as visible as the m4-p's framelines... is this about what you experience?
I cannot imagine that there would be any reason mine would be worse than, or less visible than, a brand new Cl in mint condition. As to my eye, inside the tiny RF window, the mirror, or silver coated prism thing, looks brand new and clean/clear. I also checked for separation, haze, etc and there is none. the VF window on the side my eye goes up to it has a few tiny specs of dust but they are not even slightly visible when my eye is up to the VF and I cannot imagine these would effect the super-imposed patch and other stuff.
what do ya'll think?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Sorry, it took me a bit of time to pull out the bag that has both my M4-2 and CL in it... 
I took out both cameras and checked them against one another. I bought the CL in 2012, it purportedly had just been given a full CLA. I bought the M4-2 in 2011, and I had the viewfinder CLAed, collimated, and the accuracy adjusted. My CL dates from 1973, my M4-2 dates from 1978. So they're comparably old and have both just been serviced.
I checked the viewfinder brightness and focusing in my office illuminated by evening light ... ISO 100 @ f/2 @ 1/15 second is about the light level. To my eye, the M4-2's viewfinder is about a stop brighter overall. Mine's an early production one so the viewfinder framelines are the lighter, thinner ones like the M4 rather than the M4-P's six-frames setup. The CL's rangefinder patch is rounded rather than rectangular and almost the same brightness as the M4-2. I'd expect the M4-P to be a little brighter on framelines and focusing patch. (Note that in the middle of the second run of the M4-2, Leica changed the viewfinder optics by pulling out a correcting lens, which made the framelines brighter per what people were asking for, at the expense of having a bit more flare and a little smaller exit pupil. It was a trade-off, and it's why I was interested to get an early M4-2 rather than late or M4-P. I've had three M4-Ps over the years ... I just prefer the older, quieter, simpler viewfinder. ;-)
I found them both equally easy to focus in that room illumination.
G
I took out both cameras and checked them against one another. I bought the CL in 2012, it purportedly had just been given a full CLA. I bought the M4-2 in 2011, and I had the viewfinder CLAed, collimated, and the accuracy adjusted. My CL dates from 1973, my M4-2 dates from 1978. So they're comparably old and have both just been serviced.
I checked the viewfinder brightness and focusing in my office illuminated by evening light ... ISO 100 @ f/2 @ 1/15 second is about the light level. To my eye, the M4-2's viewfinder is about a stop brighter overall. Mine's an early production one so the viewfinder framelines are the lighter, thinner ones like the M4 rather than the M4-P's six-frames setup. The CL's rangefinder patch is rounded rather than rectangular and almost the same brightness as the M4-2. I'd expect the M4-P to be a little brighter on framelines and focusing patch. (Note that in the middle of the second run of the M4-2, Leica changed the viewfinder optics by pulling out a correcting lens, which made the framelines brighter per what people were asking for, at the expense of having a bit more flare and a little smaller exit pupil. It was a trade-off, and it's why I was interested to get an early M4-2 rather than late or M4-P. I've had three M4-Ps over the years ... I just prefer the older, quieter, simpler viewfinder. ;-)
I found them both equally easy to focus in that room illumination.
G
boomguy57
Well-known
Enjoy the new setup. Always good to see someone from my neck of the woods on RFF.
Bingley
Veteran
Good for you! You got a very good buy. The Rokkor lens is outstanding (I've got that one as well). Enjoy shooting with the camera and post pix here when you get a chance!
jimithing616
James B - MPLS, MN
Godfrey, Thank you for looking into that (no pun intended) for me! I appreciate it! Yea, 1 stop darker sounds about right. I have used an M3, never an M4 or M4-2, so I can appreciate the simpler look, although the M3 is obviously a different animal than the M4-2 when it comes to magnification and what not. I just looked again in my living room at about 100iso f/2 1/8th and again, both were easy to focus, only difference was when I focused on something 25+ feet away in the kitchen, a blender, the smaller patch of the CL shows its weakness. But that is obviously not its bread n' butter anyway! Oh, One day I hope to be able to have owned as many leica's as you, and to make statements about why I chose one over another after owning many others haha! One can only dream... first I shall focus on graduating though! and paying rent! Thanks again, that was very kind of you to take the time to do that.
Will do steve, and yes I just love how tiny and smooth it is, all my other leica glass is 20-50 years older (besides a 15mm VC I rarely use) and this just has a very crisp, different feel in use, not that I don't love my elmars!
I just shot my 1st roll through the CL, unfortunately it is c-41, which I don't develop myself. I have heard costco is relatively inexpensive, especially if I just want scanned negs or something? Can anyone attest to this, as my mother has a membership.
Trevor (boomguy) is it? I looked at your blog, so I am assuming its Trevor. Anyway, I saw you are in my area, that is awesome. We should get together some time if you are so inclined. I believe I would gain a great deal from it looking at your photographs! Especially the set of NYC in B&W, amazing stuff! I looked on Flickr, but I didn't see what you shot that with? What camera? Film (if any)? I love both the photo's and the clarity. Very nice sir!
One more thing... (I may rename this post "Helping James Again") Do leica lenses get fungus easier than others? Or does the Rokkor. I bought the lens, checked it over with a flashlight for a long time, no fungus. Today I had it with me in my car, I got side tracked and it ended up staying in the camera bag, in my parked car, 82 degrees, humid, for an hour here and then an hour there, etc. I got home and a tiny spore of fungus or something similar, a little circular thing. Had formed on the inside of the rear element. Easy fix, just unscrewed it with some dividers, took a Zeiss wipe, lightly, and in one direction only, wiped it 3 times, then dried it with a zeiss microfiber, blew off any dust, screwed it back in, another 10 mins in the dark with a flashlight and confirmed it was 100 gone... any thoughts? I treat my minolta/nikon manual focus (20-30 year old) glass like this all the time... never any probs...
Oh, and I keep 2 home-made desiccant packs in my small camera bag, right next to the lens. (packs are made from 100% silica gel kitty litter inside coffee filters)
let me know what ya'll think!
Will do steve, and yes I just love how tiny and smooth it is, all my other leica glass is 20-50 years older (besides a 15mm VC I rarely use) and this just has a very crisp, different feel in use, not that I don't love my elmars!
I just shot my 1st roll through the CL, unfortunately it is c-41, which I don't develop myself. I have heard costco is relatively inexpensive, especially if I just want scanned negs or something? Can anyone attest to this, as my mother has a membership.
Trevor (boomguy) is it? I looked at your blog, so I am assuming its Trevor. Anyway, I saw you are in my area, that is awesome. We should get together some time if you are so inclined. I believe I would gain a great deal from it looking at your photographs! Especially the set of NYC in B&W, amazing stuff! I looked on Flickr, but I didn't see what you shot that with? What camera? Film (if any)? I love both the photo's and the clarity. Very nice sir!
One more thing... (I may rename this post "Helping James Again") Do leica lenses get fungus easier than others? Or does the Rokkor. I bought the lens, checked it over with a flashlight for a long time, no fungus. Today I had it with me in my car, I got side tracked and it ended up staying in the camera bag, in my parked car, 82 degrees, humid, for an hour here and then an hour there, etc. I got home and a tiny spore of fungus or something similar, a little circular thing. Had formed on the inside of the rear element. Easy fix, just unscrewed it with some dividers, took a Zeiss wipe, lightly, and in one direction only, wiped it 3 times, then dried it with a zeiss microfiber, blew off any dust, screwed it back in, another 10 mins in the dark with a flashlight and confirmed it was 100 gone... any thoughts? I treat my minolta/nikon manual focus (20-30 year old) glass like this all the time... never any probs...
Oh, and I keep 2 home-made desiccant packs in my small camera bag, right next to the lens. (packs are made from 100% silica gel kitty litter inside coffee filters)
let me know what ya'll think!
jimithing616
James B - MPLS, MN
Oh, how do you guys store your leica's for extended periods of time? I have drawers in my desk, its old, wood, I store my lenses, and camera's in there. With non slip stuff on the bottom, and 4 or 5 silica desiccant packs in each drawer....
Any thoughts? I shall start a lens/camera storage forum I think!
Thanks
Any thoughts? I shall start a lens/camera storage forum I think!
Thanks
Godfrey
somewhat colored
My cameras are stored on a shelf in a closet, either in open plastic shelf-organizer boxes with a cloth over them or in various camera bags. I live in a dry climate so the primary issue is dust, not mold or fungus.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Glad to help.
A) All that's required is to be active in photography for about 50 years, and enjoy trying out different equipment on a regular basis.
B) C41 color film processing is entirely automated. The only critical issue is to find a lab that keeps their C41 processing machine clean with fresh chemistry. Even the best lab doesn't charge more than $5-10 to process C41 negatives only. If you have your own scanner, you don't even have to pay for them to do the scans.
C) Leica lenses grow fungus no easier than any other lenses. If a fungus ring appeared so swiftly, it just means that it was already there but not yet visible.
G
A) All that's required is to be active in photography for about 50 years, and enjoy trying out different equipment on a regular basis.
B) C41 color film processing is entirely automated. The only critical issue is to find a lab that keeps their C41 processing machine clean with fresh chemistry. Even the best lab doesn't charge more than $5-10 to process C41 negatives only. If you have your own scanner, you don't even have to pay for them to do the scans.
C) Leica lenses grow fungus no easier than any other lenses. If a fungus ring appeared so swiftly, it just means that it was already there but not yet visible.
G
jimithing616
James B - MPLS, MN
Ahh I see. This makes sense (the fungus thing) as I had once bought a nikon lens, that had been stored improperly for ages.. upon inspection I found no fungus (surprisingly). 2 weeks later after stored properly in my home with desiccant packs, etc, I find a fungus ring smack dab in the middle of the rear element, inside it of course. Anyway, I suppose I need to clean that... cant get the back element open though. very annoying. Anyway... I digress..
50 years ay? that makes my GAS calm down a bit! Which it needed, as it and my budget are too different animals. entirely.
Thanks again.
50 years ay? that makes my GAS calm down a bit! Which it needed, as it and my budget are too different animals. entirely.
Thanks again.