Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
The funny think about both Ken Rockwell and Internet Fora in general, is that if you agree with someone, you think they are a genius. If you don't, well...
But, once again Ken got his 15 minutes of fame around here.
Ken Rockwell says Electro 35 better than Leica & Nikon RF's
- Thread starter gb hill
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The funny think about both Ken Rockwell and Internet Fora in general, is that if you agree with someone, you think they are a genius. If you don't, well...
But, once again Ken got his 15 minutes of fame around here.
gb hill
Veteran
I'm sure it won't be the last 15 minuets he'll get around here.
Mattikk
Well-known
Can you get the batteries for these outside US?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I am sorry to say but amateur or pro has nothing to do with the control of the shutter speed.
It largely depends on what you are shootin, but in many many cases i could not care less about what the exact shutter speed is. As long as it's correct for the exposure and it's not too slow it is fine.
For some other cases, shutter speed is important and then one can use(as the article says!!) something else.
The guy is well known for exaggerating his conclusions. But he's writing reasonably well and in an entertaining way. And he's right in many things.
E.g. no matter how expensive and 'pro' your focal plane shutter camera is, it's NO competition in the noise domain to the GSN. Even better is the CC version that doesn't even produce the clunk at winding.
The most influence i want to make on my photos is via selective focusing, which is very well controllable by the GSN since it's aperture priority and manual focus. SO it fits me.
It largely depends on what you are shootin, but in many many cases i could not care less about what the exact shutter speed is. As long as it's correct for the exposure and it's not too slow it is fine.
For some other cases, shutter speed is important and then one can use(as the article says!!) something else.
The guy is well known for exaggerating his conclusions. But he's writing reasonably well and in an entertaining way. And he's right in many things.
E.g. no matter how expensive and 'pro' your focal plane shutter camera is, it's NO competition in the noise domain to the GSN. Even better is the CC version that doesn't even produce the clunk at winding.
The most influence i want to make on my photos is via selective focusing, which is very well controllable by the GSN since it's aperture priority and manual focus. SO it fits me.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
You are SURE ?
Have you tried?
Here's what I tried: I tried a Minolta hi-matic 9. Makes good images but its needle meter is weird to use in manual mode, and it has only full manual OR full auto. It's viewfinder/rangefinder is worse than GSN. It's size is similar. It's shutter was stuck, i cleaned it out and then failed on me again. I didnt manage to make it work the second time. In addition, shutter on Yashica is better (stepless control, longer shutter times, higher meter sensitivity).
I tried Canonets. They are fine but the gsn's meter is better, uses available batteries, and the image quality seems to be a bit better. Shutter on Yashica is much better (see above). Canonet is nice to be used meterless, but then i'd prefer a FSU.
Parallax compensation framelines? What makes u think the GSN does not have it?
I suggest everybody go buy one and try it out before spreading the bad news. You might have a nice surprise.
Is it better than the modern rangefinders you list? Of course not, but it's 10+years older and an order of magnitude cheaper, giving you almost the same final image quality... You can take it to places where you would think seven times to bring your x-thousand euro m7 with your n-thousand dollar (slower) summicron lens...
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
you cannot get the original batteries anywhere, at least not new and not fully legally.
But a 4SR44 or 4LR44 will work fine, with some aluminum foil and cardboard to make up for the extra space.
Oh yes,one more thing...Battery life...
I am using GSN's for years already and I never had to replace a battery yet. In one case, i even have an old mercury one inside from the previous owner and it still works well. In three GSN's i handled, only one needed the PAD to be replaced.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Pherdinand,
Hellow, a nice midday now in Jerusalem. What about your place?
If in your abovequote sentence you refer to an amateur or pro photographer, I would agree very much. And of course a photographer in control of his shutter speed is not a pro by this very fact.
If you are refering to an amateur or pro camera, I agree too but to a much lesser extent. What makes a pro camera into such ? I think I read once that it is the number of firings it was designed to resist. I read this and accepted it to this day.
But today, in view of your above remark I have to include shutter speed control among the characteristics of a pro camera. Now let us all beware that the mere existance of shutter speed control is not the sole precondition making a camera into a pro one. Thus for example, Kievs were pro cameras long ago. Not anymore today.
Now you say you personally don't need shutter control. Perhaps even HCB didn't. So what ? Are we going to cathegorize cameras by our own likes and dis-likes, personal needs, etc. ?
I think you may agree here with me.
Cheers,
Ruben
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
The weather is great in Groningen, NL today, Ruben🙂
Which is a very rare occasion lately.
We had plenty of october-november type cold rain in this month.
But it does make sky look more interesting at 35mm.
Indeed, the Yashicas seem to resists to a lot of firings! Maybe they need a minor maintenance after 25 years of use (amateur use, probably), but then again, everything does🙂
I agree with you. I am not trying to define what's a universally pro or better camera based on what my needs are. I'm only saying, the Yashica is a nice surprise in its (price) category and even in one or two categories higher up.
If i'd think what Nick thinks, that one only needs a Yashica, i would not have 11 more cameras. Or they would all be Yashicas.
Which is a very rare occasion lately.
We had plenty of october-november type cold rain in this month.
But it does make sky look more interesting at 35mm.
Indeed, the Yashicas seem to resists to a lot of firings! Maybe they need a minor maintenance after 25 years of use (amateur use, probably), but then again, everything does🙂
I agree with you. I am not trying to define what's a universally pro or better camera based on what my needs are. I'm only saying, the Yashica is a nice surprise in its (price) category and even in one or two categories higher up.
If i'd think what Nick thinks, that one only needs a Yashica, i would not have 11 more cameras. Or they would all be Yashicas.
Attachments
btgc
Veteran
Amazing thread....down to the pro vs amateur! I think Ken R. would laugh about this thread like crazy 🙂
But people are what hey are, it's normal. Instead of using or not, we put up theories. This is true engine of communities, like RFF 🙂
But people are what hey are, it's normal. Instead of using or not, we put up theories. This is true engine of communities, like RFF 🙂
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
If you're going to make that much noise anyway, why not use plastic explosives or a bazooka?
Some would say that a bazooka is better. The NY Public Works Department may even agree with you, but would stick to the jackhammer. 😉
But I'm sure the spoon is safer and more environmentally-friendly. 🙂
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
sure, Ken, and a Yugo is better than a Mercedes.
gb hill
Veteran
I'm scratching my head, but I just don't hear a "clunk" in mine when I advance the film. Just a smooth wind is all I get. I know it works because I had a roll developed recently. I'm running a roll through it right now. The only gripe I have with this camera is the size of it in my hands. To me my canonet just feels better, but I have small hands. It's really a great camera & it does have an awesome lens IMO but Kens statements compairing with Leica & Nikon rf's crack me up. And there is no way I will paint any of my lens caps orange.
gb hill
Veteran
Apparently you haven't been to Ken's car site. He drives a Mercedes & talks about how much cheaper it is to drive than a Ford Tarus. Ken is not only an "expert" on cameras he is also an "expert" on cars.😀😀
http://www.kenrockwell.com/cars/index.htm
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
gb, that's rather strange. The G-something series yashicas all 'clunk" at winding - except the ones that have the Pad Problem.
Might be that the Pad was dead in yours and it got replaced with something softer that does not 'clunk' ..?
Lens cap: It only happened once in my life that i forgot the lens cap on and took a shot. One single frame. Repeatable one. Happened with the hexar af.
Might be that the Pad was dead in yours and it got replaced with something softer that does not 'clunk' ..?
Lens cap: It only happened once in my life that i forgot the lens cap on and took a shot. One single frame. Repeatable one. Happened with the hexar af.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
At least he's channeling his boredom. Others copy-and-paste and denigrate what they're copy-and-pasting about.
Anyway, everybody knows that a Ford is the best car in the world. If you're a car workshop owner. 😱
gb hill
Veteran
Possability...I don't even know what the PAD is that everybody is talking about. I guess the clunk could be there. I just can't reconigize it. I do have a extra GSN that came with the user for parts. When I wind it on it clunks to the point it feels like something it loose and stripped out. My user GSN looks as good as Ken's model GSN. Well I only paid 12.00 for both of them. Plus the cost of adapter I got from Yashica Guy & light seal kit.
gb hill
Veteran
I don't mean to denigrate anyone. Like Ken states on his web site for amusement purposes only.
Best cars I have owned are Fords. Worse were Chevorlets. Years ago 350 Chevy engines had bad cams that wore down the lobes causing the push rods to stick into the rocker arms. I have a 73 Ford XLT truck that will haul a load of 2x4s without hanging 3 foot off the tailgate. Doesn't use a drop of oil. I drive a Tempo to work almost 60 mile round trip 5 days a week. Has one of the best 4 cyl. engines ever made. Cast Iron block not alunium. Doesn't smoke a lick. Has 200,000 + miles, never been rebuilt. My first car was a 55 Ford Customline, 272 v8 with original 6 volt. I drove that cat in the 80's from Atlanta Ga. to N.C. when I was in the Navy. Never a breakdown. If you had bad luck with a Ford I can't help you.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I've never owned a Ford, but I have heard nothing but bad things about them, and those are the cars I usually find on the shoulder at the freeway with their hood up.
I have a Chrysler, and it's only given me a problem once (the fuel pump), which no self-respecting car manufacturer should ever say it's something that can happen in a new car. They told me that when that happened half a year after I bought it (almost 8 years ago). Oh, and the air conditioner.
Next time I'm in the market for a car, I'm buying from a company that respects car buyers, like Honda.
If I ever channel the jerk in me, I'll get a Hummer. Never seen one of those break down. Oh, right, it gets you 30 gallons to the mile.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I have had a few Fords over the years. The 1986 Mercury Capri had more than 100,000 miles on it when I got rid of it. The Saturn I bought after that self-destructed at aroun 94,000 miles. My 1983 Buick was a POS, so I still rate Ford better than GM any day of the week. I've never owned a Chrysler product, but some of the ugliest cars I've ever rented while travelling have been Chryslers. Never had one long term though.
NickTrop
Veteran
Let's use our imagination:
Take a GTN (GTN cause it's black), slap a red dot on it, and watch the world change...
1. You wouldn't even be able to fine one on eBay for less than $_ _ _ _._ _ ???
2. People would be talking about the sharpness and glow of the 1.7 "Suminon" lens... By the way, It's a 6 element, 4 group double gauss in the standard focal length range - like most of them They better be able to make a good one by the mid-60's, or they should get out of the lens business. Only difference is our imaginary "Suminon" lens has mystique and the real Yashinon lens - rather mystique-less...
Of course, we all know this is a silly hypothetical scenario, mainly because Lecia then (and now) would never be so innovative as to have an electronic stepless shutter aperture priority camera in the 60's. And if they did, they would never charge anything less than ridiculous sums of money for it...
Take a GTN (GTN cause it's black), slap a red dot on it, and watch the world change...
1. You wouldn't even be able to fine one on eBay for less than $_ _ _ _._ _ ???
2. People would be talking about the sharpness and glow of the 1.7 "Suminon" lens... By the way, It's a 6 element, 4 group double gauss in the standard focal length range - like most of them They better be able to make a good one by the mid-60's, or they should get out of the lens business. Only difference is our imaginary "Suminon" lens has mystique and the real Yashinon lens - rather mystique-less...
Of course, we all know this is a silly hypothetical scenario, mainly because Lecia then (and now) would never be so innovative as to have an electronic stepless shutter aperture priority camera in the 60's. And if they did, they would never charge anything less than ridiculous sums of money for it...