Kiev 4M shutter curtain problems - CLA?

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Eising

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Feb 10, 2010
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Hi there.

I bought a Kiev 4 half a year or so ago, and haven't really been enjoying as much as I ought to, since a shutter curtain issue quickly appeared. First it only happened at the slower speeds, then now it happens all the time. What I can see is that when I cock the shutter the lower curtain does not stick with the upper one so that light hits the film already before I fire the shutter. Some times only half of the film is exposed, but mostly it's everything.

I've been searching the mighty google a bit and I don't think I am capable of doing a repair myself, so a CLA by some knowledgeable person is probably what I am looking for.

Does anyone know someone who is able to do a good CLA in Europe on my Kiev 4?
 
Have a close look at the curtains, there's a small hook that links them together when you wind on and gets unlocked just ahead of them being released. If that hook is bent or broken it won't work properly. One other trick is to lift the lower curtain *gently* when it's partway wound. I read this on a website somewhere, for where the curtains somehow get out of sync but nothing's broken. It worked on one of mine YMMV of course!

P.S. Welcome to RFF
 
Thank you for your help so far. I've e-mailed Oleg with a request for quote on the repair.

I've tried to check if I can see the hooks that should like them together, but I can't locate them. For some reason I can get both curtains to lift if I wind it very slowly but as soon as I get to the end of the winding, the lower curtain falls a few millimeters down again...
 
Eising said:
Thank you for your help so far. I've e-mailed Oleg with a request for quote on the repair.

I've tried to check if I can see the hooks that should like them together, but I can't locate them. For some reason I can get both curtains to lift if I wind it very slowly but as soon as I get to the end of the winding, the lower curtain falls a few millimeters down again...
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I think I've misled you slightly here, sorry. The hook is in the body, just beyond the top of the frame. Hold the camera upside down and peer into the middle of the top of the frame, behind the curtain. There's a little tab on the lower curtain that the hook springs onto. This holds the lower curtain locked up until the shutter is released, it doesn't lock the curtains to each other.

The "trick" with the curtains is to wind it almost to the point where the top curtain disappears, then grip the lower curtain gently between thumb and forefinger, with your hand under or over the body (and with the lens off!). Very gently lift the lower curtain to the top of the frame. This *might* cure it - or not! Worth a try, just don't force anything.

From what you've said, the hook is failing to hold the lower curtain, either through bad adjustment or from a failure of the mechanism that operates it.
 
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A few observations:

I've tried guiding the lower curtain up like you described. That did not do the trick...
However I noticed something:
I can still get the lower curtain to move up correctly by winding VERY slowly, however once it reaches the top of the window, it jams against something. Like there was some sort of mechanism that should interact with the hook-like thing on the top of the lower curtain, but does not do so.

I'm beginning to question the logic of getting this fixed. The camera was cheap when I bought it and it's one of the late 4M's with the poorer build-quality.
 
You might also try Mike Haley at - http://cccp.alien-planet.net/index.htm .
He has Kievs repaired by ex Arsenal Techs .

They fixed a Contax III for me and built a Contax II [ see avatar ] from parts with Kiev II shutter and they are sublime ... but not cheap !

Oleg may be able to sell you a body for what it would cost to fix the 4m .

You may be better off getting a pre 1970 body if you can , though my K4m from Oleg is still going strong !
I was quoted around £100 by London based camera repairers due to the complexity .
 
Hi Eising, I'd appreciate if you update us on your progress with getting the curtains fixed. I'm especially interested if you'll manage to get it fixed cheap. I've got the same issue and while the repair costs can be more than double the camera's worth, mine's so clean and pretty it's a shame to let it go to waste. So I've got the same dilemma as you :)
(Local gut quoted ~ eur 150 for repair - way too much for this camera!
 
Given that it takes about 50€ to get hold of a working 60's vintage Kiev 4 in nice shape, it would be disproportionate to spend more on fixing a later Kiev, unless the latter has already proved to be reliable and fault free. I have no scruples to spend more than average used value on a camera I have used for a long time and know to be above average in performance - but it is pointless to sink more than used value into a unknown camera notorious for having unrepairable faults.
 
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I appreciate your honesty.
While I haven't received any quote from Oleg yet, I'm not holding much hope that that I will find any quote within reasonable proportions of the original purchase price.

So for now I will leave the camera on my shelf. Can I use the lens on any other systems? Perhaps through the use of a converter?
 
Eising said:
I'm beginning to question the logic of getting this fixed. The camera was cheap when I bought it and it's one of the late 4M's with the poorer build-quality.
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Always the dilemma with an old FSU - they are not worth big money and there are plenty more. Unless you have great sentimental reasons to pay out for repair, it's rarely worthwhile.
 
Thank you Bob. I've already read through those pages a couple of times and I am not very comfortable around doing the repairs myself. The page also mentions that the ribbons are often at fault when it comes to the shutter curtains and the repair guide's conclusion is to order the ribbons from Oleg.
 
wolves3012 said:
Always the dilemma with an old FSU - they are not worth big money and there are plenty more. Unless you have great sentimental reasons to pay out for repair, it's rarely worthwhile.
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I have searched my mind and find no sentimental reasons at all. I have owned this camera for a little less than half a year :)
 
Oleg's website says US $56 for a Kiev 2,3 or 4 and $22 for posting back. That's a full service, etc.

It's worth bearing in mind that buying another merely puts off the repair and so, FWIW, I'd say send it to Oleg. The alternative is to find one that's just been done and that can be difficult. Finding one that's up and running sounds OK but a couple of years later you'll probably be back where you started. The age of the cameras has a lot to do with it and they are all in the same narrow age range.

Regards, David
 
wolves3012 said:
Most Kiev lenses are compatible with most Contaxes, that's about it, I think.
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The one notable exception is the Jupiter-12, which will not fit the Contax IIa/IIIa, whose curtain is placed slightly closer to the lens than on pre-war Contaxes and Kievs.
 
David Hughes said:
Oleg's website says US $56 for a Kiev 2,3 or 4 and $22 for posting back. That's a full service, etc.

It's worth bearing in mind that buying another merely puts off the repair and so, FWIW, I'd say send it to Oleg. The alternative is to find one that's just been done and that can be difficult. Finding one that's up and running sounds OK but a couple of years later you'll probably be back where you started. The age of the cameras has a lot to do with it and they are all in the same narrow age range.

Regards, David
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That's actually not a bad price. I guess I'll wait for Oleg to get back to me. No matter what it's still cheaper than a new camera...
 
Eising

I was not suggesting a DIY repair but that it may help diagnose what the problem is. Believe me there is no mistaking a broken shutter ribbon or two. Been there.

Bob
 
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