AGX2015
Member
Some one use the Kiev 60 camera?
It's a good camera? Reliable? I heard that the kiev 88 is very crap....
But the other?
Some suggestion for a very good 6x6 format ussr camera? (or other producers... if it don't cost too much)
It's a good camera? Reliable? I heard that the kiev 88 is very crap....
But the other?
Some suggestion for a very good 6x6 format ussr camera? (or other producers... if it don't cost too much)
littleearth
Well-known
No, it's **** !
For the same money these days you can get a much better camera.
A 645 (Pentax, Mamiya, Bronica) or a TLR (Yashica, Mamiya, Rolleicord, Flexaret etc) will be a much better option.
For the same money these days you can get a much better camera.
A 645 (Pentax, Mamiya, Bronica) or a TLR (Yashica, Mamiya, Rolleicord, Flexaret etc) will be a much better option.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Pentacon 6 is very good IF you are scrupulously careful about winding on (I have one I bought in Prague). So is KowaSIX, but if the latter breaks, it's probably a write-off -- which is why they're cheap (I inherited mine).
Kievs are more of a gamble than I'd want to go for, though a serviced, guaranteed model is probably OK.
Purely personally, I don't much like 645s or TLRs. How much are you planning on spending? And where are you?
Cheers,
R.
Kievs are more of a gamble than I'd want to go for, though a serviced, guaranteed model is probably OK.
Purely personally, I don't much like 645s or TLRs. How much are you planning on spending? And where are you?
Cheers,
R.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
It is a heavy camera that can have frame spacing problems, despite the well known repair that is online and the use of film with a thicker base and a thicker film spools.
The Kiev lenses are quite good optically, but I had a newish Mir 26b 45mm wide angle lens self destruct in typical FSU camera gear fashion.
The Kiev lenses are quite good optically, but I had a newish Mir 26b 45mm wide angle lens self destruct in typical FSU camera gear fashion.
Nokton48
Veteran
Ever see "The Money Pit" with Tom Hanks? I gambled and spent quite a lot on P6/K60/K88 and in the end, I lost. So I sold all of it off before it self-destructed.
Go to www.delphiforums.com "The Kiev Report" There is so much in the archives. I still post there, I am Hassydan. A few still stick it out over there but not many. What a long wild ride it was (glad it's over)
www.pentaconsix.com is a fantastic P6/Kiev website run by a friend of mine
Go to www.delphiforums.com "The Kiev Report" There is so much in the archives. I still post there, I am Hassydan. A few still stick it out over there but not many. What a long wild ride it was (glad it's over)
www.pentaconsix.com is a fantastic P6/Kiev website run by a friend of mine
Schlapp
Well-known
I had a KOWA 6. Fantastic camera and there is someone in Liverpool who mends them - and well too. Prefer the KOWA to the Kiev60 which I now have
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
If you like to gamble it is very good entry point.
If you like to take pictures in 6x6 format, want FSU and able of simple repairs - Lubitel-2.
If you have more advanced repair skills - Moskva-4 with 6x6 optional mask.
This is it for 6x6 FSU if you are into taking of pictures, not constant care of the junky cameras.
Wanna better, yet cheap 6x6 to take pictures - get Yashica 124G TLR or Zeiss Nettar folder.
If you like to take pictures in 6x6 format, want FSU and able of simple repairs - Lubitel-2.
If you have more advanced repair skills - Moskva-4 with 6x6 optional mask.
This is it for 6x6 FSU if you are into taking of pictures, not constant care of the junky cameras.
Wanna better, yet cheap 6x6 to take pictures - get Yashica 124G TLR or Zeiss Nettar folder.
pschauss
Well-known
I have a Kiev 60, Kiev 6C, and a Pentacon 6. The counter on the Pentacon 6 stops counting at 6. The two Kievs have worked well for me. Frame spacing on my Kiev 60 is good. I have worked around the overlapping frame problem on my 6C by running it on the 220 film setting. Using the metered prism that came with my Kiev 60 makes it very convenient to frame and focus. The light meter is cumbersome because you have to take the camera away from your eye to read it and set the speed and aperture on the camera.
Because the Kievs are large and heavy I do most of my medium format work with a TLR or a folder.
Because the Kievs are large and heavy I do most of my medium format work with a TLR or a folder.
rjbuzzclick
Well-known
I have a Kiev 6C with the Vega 12B lens and the left-handed shutter button. I have had frame spacing issues with Fuji films, but have been fine with Fomapan. My metered prism worked fine and was accurate when I used it with button cell batteries and various things for spacers, but I generally use a hand meter so it may not be working now. My 1/1000 speed (rarely used) has some capping issues. The slowest speed (1/2) sticks a little bit and needs cleaning. The door latch mechanism had a screw work loose that needed to be dealt with. The body also needed new light seals.
The Vega 12B lens has cleaning marks, but I like the way it renders. The aperture mechanism needs some cleaning, and it didn't work at all when I first got it.
It's not my main camera, but I've been very happy with the pictures I've taken with it. I've done all the work on it myself so it's not cost me more than the $30 I paid for it. I would not have paid more however. Recently, I bought a WLF for it which improved the handling for me, and cut the weight in half over using the metered prism.
The Vega 12B lens has cleaning marks, but I like the way it renders. The aperture mechanism needs some cleaning, and it didn't work at all when I first got it.
It's not my main camera, but I've been very happy with the pictures I've taken with it. I've done all the work on it myself so it's not cost me more than the $30 I paid for it. I would not have paid more however. Recently, I bought a WLF for it which improved the handling for me, and cut the weight in half over using the metered prism.
Fotohuis
Well-known
I have a Kiev-6C (in 6x4,5 configuration, with prism) with Vega-12B (F/2,8-90mm). It is a pretty heavy camera but it works well. The lens has been serviced by Arax in Kiev. Because I have a M645 Pro I do not need the Kiev so in principle it is for sale. Incl. warranty on the Vega lens. Comparing to a Pentacon-6, Kiev-6C or Kiev-60 have less problems.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
You are worrying too much about all these different cameras. Just buy one and see if you like it; there's no other way.
As for reliability, all film cameras are second-hand these days and it's just a matter of luck.
So cheap camera and meter and lots of film. And look at the costs of film to buy and print...
Or tell us what you are really after or would like.
Regards, David
You are worrying too much about all these different cameras. Just buy one and see if you like it; there's no other way.
As for reliability, all film cameras are second-hand these days and it's just a matter of luck.
So cheap camera and meter and lots of film. And look at the costs of film to buy and print...
Or tell us what you are really after or would like.
Regards, David
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I owned a Kiev 60, but ended up selling it. The shutter vibration was horrendous and the overall feel + ergonomics of the camera were unpleasant.
I currently own a Kiev 88 and a collection of lenses. It has frame spacing issues, but generally the camera has been trouble-free and fun to use. The lenses are actually pretty decent -- I think the lenses are much better quality than the actual cameras.
I think it's important to recognize that these old cameras (especially the FSU ones) are potentially going to have problems. I purchased my Kiev 88 used so if things didn't work out I wasn't going to lose any sleep about it.
In my experience the Kiev 88 was a better choice than the Kiev 60, but like David said, you won't know until you actually buy something and try it out.
Here's a shot of my 'Hasselbladski'.
I currently own a Kiev 88 and a collection of lenses. It has frame spacing issues, but generally the camera has been trouble-free and fun to use. The lenses are actually pretty decent -- I think the lenses are much better quality than the actual cameras.
I think it's important to recognize that these old cameras (especially the FSU ones) are potentially going to have problems. I purchased my Kiev 88 used so if things didn't work out I wasn't going to lose any sleep about it.
In my experience the Kiev 88 was a better choice than the Kiev 60, but like David said, you won't know until you actually buy something and try it out.
Here's a shot of my 'Hasselbladski'.
Nokton48
Veteran
Just curious.... Ever owned one of these?
I always felt like I was playing "Russian Roulette".
see here; Very Old Kewl Kievaholic Website:
www.kievaholic.com
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Yes, most of them. And that's how I know how many are/were being worried about like the SLR's and CRF's elsewhere. And I have answered a lot of post about them all. And I am worried that he/she is worrying too much. Eventually we all have to grasp the nettle.
And I hope no one reads anything nasty into this; it was offered as a piece of advice in an attempt to stop him/her getting too bothered.
Regards, David
Yes, most of them. And that's how I know how many are/were being worried about like the SLR's and CRF's elsewhere. And I have answered a lot of post about them all. And I am worried that he/she is worrying too much. Eventually we all have to grasp the nettle.
And I hope no one reads anything nasty into this; it was offered as a piece of advice in an attempt to stop him/her getting too bothered.
Regards, David
Fotohuis
Well-known
The "newer" Kiev-60 from Arax have a MLU so you are getting rid of the vibrations. Further some other minor modifications to get this camera 100%. At least much better then a Pentacon-6 which has too many problems. Medium format Russian cameras are heavy. In that way I like more their R.F. models.
Spanik
Well-known
Got a pair of Kiev's, one 60 and one 456. Both came from Hartblei and never gave a spot of trouble unless it was a user error (typical getting the strap caught between the advance lever and the stop). They were my return to film and intro to medium format. If you take a bit of attention when loading the film and don't hammer the transport it works fine.
They are heavier than the P6 but I do prefer them over the P6, specially for the better/brighter viewfinder. Coming from a digital APS-C the viewfinder is a revelation. However as said above, the metering of the prism is not very practical. And the back doesn't open when the latch at the side of the film door rubs over the side of your bag like with the P6 (I lost more film in a P6 than in a Kiev).
There is mirror vibration with such a large mirror but I got them with mirror pre-release and that helps a lot. But while it is worse than a camera with central shutter it isn't much worse than a 1970's slr. Now when you decide to lug medium format around taking a tripod or at least a monopod is a good idea anyway.
Quite a lot of nice lenses like the Arsat 30, 45 PSC and 55 PSC or the CZJ 65, 120 and 180.
Now also as said before you can for the same money get other cameras. I went to 645 after them but I never regretted buying them. I have TLR's and RF's in medium format as well, but they never did it for me. If I have to clear out my shelves they might not be the last to go but there's a lot of others that will go before them.
They are heavier than the P6 but I do prefer them over the P6, specially for the better/brighter viewfinder. Coming from a digital APS-C the viewfinder is a revelation. However as said above, the metering of the prism is not very practical. And the back doesn't open when the latch at the side of the film door rubs over the side of your bag like with the P6 (I lost more film in a P6 than in a Kiev).
There is mirror vibration with such a large mirror but I got them with mirror pre-release and that helps a lot. But while it is worse than a camera with central shutter it isn't much worse than a 1970's slr. Now when you decide to lug medium format around taking a tripod or at least a monopod is a good idea anyway.
Quite a lot of nice lenses like the Arsat 30, 45 PSC and 55 PSC or the CZJ 65, 120 and 180.
Now also as said before you can for the same money get other cameras. I went to 645 after them but I never regretted buying them. I have TLR's and RF's in medium format as well, but they never did it for me. If I have to clear out my shelves they might not be the last to go but there's a lot of others that will go before them.
Nokton48
Veteran
The 30mm Arsat Fisheye and 180mm F2.8 Zeiss Sonnar are reasons enough to put up with the the problematic mechanical problems of the bodies (regardless of who has worked on them in my direct experience). I have have had Hartbleis, Kiev USA cameras, Exakta 66s, and even Hot-Rodded Pentacon Sixes (sent back and forth to the Pentacon factory in Dresden). Well over a dozen in total. They can all work but I have always felt that materials (and my time) are expensive and failures of all sorts are not that unusual (ask me how I know). Every perfect success was a gift for me with these cameras. But I am glad that they are gone.
The 180mm Sonnar is a special lens and recently I have been thinking about getting one to adapt to other camera bodies.
The 180mm Sonnar is a special lens and recently I have been thinking about getting one to adapt to other camera bodies.
littleearth
Well-known
I'm just glad my time with the Kievs and Pentacon Six is over. No more gambling !
So many issues with all of them. And I got mine from Hartblei and Cupog ! I imagine the ones from Russian ebay sellers. I do miss the Sonnar 180 though !
So many issues with all of them. And I got mine from Hartblei and Cupog ! I imagine the ones from Russian ebay sellers. I do miss the Sonnar 180 though !
Nokton48
Veteran
Hey Evan, How are you doing? Hello there from Hassydan!
How are you coming along adapting the P6 lenses to Rollei SL66?
That is really a good matchup.
I want to adapt 180mm Sonnar to Plaubel Makiflex (see my avatar)
How are you coming along adapting the P6 lenses to Rollei SL66?
That is really a good matchup.
I want to adapt 180mm Sonnar to Plaubel Makiflex (see my avatar)
Evanjoe610
Established
Hi Folks,
I'm up there with Dan on the Kiev Cameras. Not all of them were bad. The older Salyut-C had a higher quality control over the Kiev 88 and even the later Kiev 88CM.
The best of the lot were the original Hartblei, made by the man himself and the later rebadgered junk sold by others.
Arax Foto is probably the best seller of the Kiev 60 reworked.
I have Exakta 66 MK3 that was serviced by Dresden and I use them only with the Schneider optics and the CZJ 50mm MC, 80mm MC, 120mm, MC, 180mm MC, 300mm MC, Pentacon 500mm MC.
With adapters I use these lenses on my Contax 645 & Mamiya 645. The optics are good, its the bodies sold by many that will fail. Go with Arax Foto only.
Evan
I'm up there with Dan on the Kiev Cameras. Not all of them were bad. The older Salyut-C had a higher quality control over the Kiev 88 and even the later Kiev 88CM.
The best of the lot were the original Hartblei, made by the man himself and the later rebadgered junk sold by others.
Arax Foto is probably the best seller of the Kiev 60 reworked.
I have Exakta 66 MK3 that was serviced by Dresden and I use them only with the Schneider optics and the CZJ 50mm MC, 80mm MC, 120mm, MC, 180mm MC, 300mm MC, Pentacon 500mm MC.
With adapters I use these lenses on my Contax 645 & Mamiya 645. The optics are good, its the bodies sold by many that will fail. Go with Arax Foto only.
Evan