kiev users, tell me why!

Hi Franco,

There is a word, somewhere said by our friend Giovatony, that in my consideration contains a lot of truth and merits much of attention.

The Kievs are not so good for the folk changing camera models with some frequency. At the user stage they require you a lot of Kiev-time to get used to, and to extract the honey they hide from the casual tourist.

This is also true about any camera with which you may like to achieve fast manipulation. But even more with the Kievs. Here you will be struggling first to save yourself from very low pace manipulation, and only after more "Kiev quality time" you will start dexterousity.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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My first FSU camera was a Kiev 4a from Fedka. Excellent, reliable camera that I had paired with a collapsible CZJ 50/2 Sonnar. I later added a Kiev 5 & a SC 35/2.5 that were a delightful, if seriously heavy ;) . combination. In a fit of stupidity, I sold them all awhile ago & concentrated on LTM.

But I missed my Kievs - they just felt right to me in ways other RFs don't. So of late I've sold my Bessa R & LTM lenses and got in the mail yesterday another utterly beautiful Kiev 4a. Coming in the mail is a Jupiter 3 50/1.5 to go with it. I hope to eventually get a Jupiter 12 & 9 plus a SC 28 for it as well.

That will be, for me, the best RF system I can have. It's mostly an aesthetic choice for me and simply is one that I enjoy.

William
 
Shame on you f2eyelevel, you obviously are more technically minded than Ruben, but I guarantee that Ruben is thye nicer person. Thats all
 
The second had had many hours of meticulous preparation by a Kiev enthusiast (Ondrej), and is a million miles in front of the first one. Smooth and quiet in the extreme, a pure delight to use.
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I'm glad you're enjoying it.

I unfortunately found that one of my CLA'd kievs is a lot worse than I expected. The fast speeds are too slow... looks like another CLA ahead :bang:
 
f2eyelevel should just go to Jerusalem and do a victory dance around Ruben and just get it all out of his system once and for all.
 
Good stuff eyelevel, I loved those repair photos of the Contax II.
you put your mind, plus heart & soul into understanding and repairing these fine cameras.
 
F2 Eyelevel, not withstanding your spats with Ruben, may I congratulate you on an excellent, professional guide to your Contax overhaul, I found it very illuminating. Well done most sincerely.

I have have stripped down and put back together a car engine, but these little tiny fiddly bits may be a bit much for me and my eyesight!
 
f2eyelevel said:
Once upon a time in far West-Jerusalem
Lived a strange guy, whose name was Ruben
For the cameras named Kiev, his passion had no limits
But to get the Contax grip tips, he needed advices from Oleg
Rather than learning how to play a Stradivarius
He chose the hard way, which hit him with the Kiev virus
And then waged a Holy War, all over the cyber Earth
Against all infidels, who in the Kiev god had no faith
I often wonder how all of this may end one day
When Fuji and Kodak, film making stop to play
And when we forget all about The Kiev Case Seen From Today
But I am confident that at that very time,
Even if we are all dead, pushing up the daisies
Or blind and deaf, not wanting to go ahead with these stories
From over the Wailing Wall, handling his Kiev 4AM, black and fine
We will have some piece of news from Ruben Bittermann.
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So it seems the abovequoted prosaic muse has radically changed into a rather bitter one. f2eyelevel you honestly earned it.

As for your questions, I gladly concede yours is bigger. You see, everything is relative in this world and who knows how many other folks may have it bigger than yours. So why to worry.

Now, on behalf of the members, and some peace at the forum, could you clarify what exactly according to you, lies behind your out of the blue personal campaign against me, you started at my thread "No More Kiev PRs", 2 weeks ago at post #11 ?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55913

I have presented the thesis that my outspoken enthusiasm for Kievs is an obstacle for your stradivarius tariff part-time CLAs you want to fish at RFF. What is your anti thesis ?

Zorkikat is very much enraged when I mention this time and again. But meanwhile you are neither decisively dennying you get money for CLA, nor are presenting any consistent case against me, beyond your alledged better knowledge against my "nosense" talk. Very weak an argument for such a protracted personal campaign, unfitting this forum, and leaving your friend at an uneasy position.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Zorkikat,
I would like to have with you a positive dialogue, instead of a useless series of accusations and counter-accusations. Accordingly I will do my best so my manners of expression fit my real intention.

Not long ago, when you were at trouble with your many Kievs, you published two threads. One was called "Kievs unlucky cameras ?" and the other "All my Kievs dead". You say now they were not kiev-defamatory but represented the facts before you. I believed you all your Kievs were dead.

Now, with the help of Aki Asahi ribbons and f2eyelevel advice, all your Kievs are alive again.
These are the new facts before you.

Would you like to synthetize your opinions about the Kievs now, instead of your opinions about me ?

If you find this post unpolite, kindly remark it.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
f2eyelevel said:
Of course.

But "technical persons" can be photographers, too. If they couldn't, or weren't for sure, it would be so sad. Ditto for the contrary.

I don't think I have been performing some particular "rubenpicking". There is no "out of the blue" personal vendetta or whatever - sorry to get you off your victim's pedestal Ruben, but you are not the target I may drop my arrows at during my worst nightmares. I'm fine, and when I have a dream, you're not in it.

Yes I have written a kind of funny (well, to many people, according to the PMs I got) about you, beginning by "Once upon a time...". Had you got some casual sense of humour bits, you would have liked it.

You can write something similar about me, if you wish. Why not. Let's have fun.

To have to say it for the fourth time already, there is no "camera repair business for money" involved here. Sorry for those people (well, maybe it's only "that") still thinking so.

Long ago, there were many very interesting discussions on the Zeiss Contax forum here about either the prewar II and III Contax cameras, and about their postwar IIa and IIIa successors. Slowly but surely, that forum got emptied from its "substance" (to use Ruben's own words) because no discussion got possible without people suddenly coming in from nowhere and telling "Stop talk guys : there is one only thing you ought to do : send your camera to Henry Scherer for a two-years long repair time". So, many people finally left, leaving that forum as an empty shell, where nothing interesting would happen at all if some folks discussing about the Contax-G series (a modern and very different Kyocera-made autofocus Japanese Contax) didn't continue to post there.

Then Ruben, noticing this, launched a memorabilia thread titled "Questions to Contax owners" which was the fisrt of a large series of very strange (to stay within polite definitions) threads of his own, where we could read highly interesting data about the Kiev, the Contax and the "Kontax". So interesting that many of these threads, having turned into personal flame wars, got quickly locked down.

Not wanting to remain there, Ruben continued to abundantly write on the FSU forum. What did he write ? Mostly, some kind of Kiev-and-Apfefstrudel-based life "philosophy" (I have nothing against this, it's a free world).

Basically, he told us that the Kiev had the most silent focal plane shutter of all 24x36 cameras ever created, that the Kiev had some unique musing effects on him when he was shooting photos in the bus, etc. Nothing wrong with that, either.

Then, being left alone with his thoughts by many other people having participated to this forum a while ago, he posed himself as a tech. specialist of a new style, telling that the Kiev Survival Site was not written in a clearly enough way, asking for a "KSS for dummies", and suddenly discovering other ways to deal with well known tech. issues for which easy and working fixes were well known already.

When Jay complained about all his Kievs having been got useless by their suddenly broken shutter ribbons, instead of providing valid repair tips to Jay, he told that the problem was not the ribbons, but Jay's unability to love the Kievs as they deserved to be, with, as a consequance, bad feelings from Jay towards the Kievs and having made the cameras fail. Of course, of course.

I didn't launch any "out of the blue" "Sicilyian vendetta" against Ruben, whom I don't know and towards whom I have no reason to be "hostlyle" (I quote his own vocabulary).

I just put him up to date technically, because he deserved it well, and because it was time for him to be told certain things (I remember Ruben wanting to be offered two return tickets from his location to Italy for his "repair work" on the Kiev cameras of a torinese fellow here, which was just too funny).

I have never insulted Ruben so far, but Ruben didn't hesitate to do it towards me, clearly showing that "the nice guy", like all of us, has his own dark side.

If you don't like it Ruben, it's no problem with me. But I don't care about it, either.
Click to expand...


So you see yourself, let's say, like Salah Al Din (the name meaning "The Sword of Justice").

Salah Al Din was a magnanimus Arab warrior, who led the Arabs against the crusade invaders, ready in most cases to spare the lives of his defeated enemies.

But your lack of wisdom and tolerance, f2eyelevel, towards those you consider infidels to the stradivarius arch, make you closer to Bin Laden.

Now, dear Mahdi ("The Teacher"), I think some folks at RFF want to know where do you stand in putting "him up to date technically, because he deserved it well, and because it was time for him to be told certain things..."

Have you succeeded already ?

Are you satisfyied enough, or will you continue victymizing RFF with your peculiar feelings for much longer ?

In my opinion you are not going to end. It's not the wellfare of RFF what you are after here, but your own egoistic fishy bussiness intentions.

Instead of writing the above facts twisted history, you could had proved me wrong by a simple declaration: I, f2eyelevel, have never taken money for fixing cameras nor I will take any money in case of accepting RFF members requests. All my fixing activities are for hobby only.

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
True apologies both to the legendary Lybian Mahdi and Salah Al Din, for having used their giantic profiles in such a misfortunate case.
 
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ON BEHALF OF RFF WELLBEING, I DECLARE A 7 DAYS UNILATERAL AND UNCONDITIONAL IGNORING PERIOD, DURING WHICH I WILL ABSTAIN FROM ANSWERING DIRECTLY OR UNDIRECTLY F2EYELEVEL PERSONAL POST AGAINST ME. I URGE ALL THE INTERESTED MODERATORS AND MEMBERS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS PERIOD AND INFLUENCE ON F2EYELEVEL TO CHANGE HIS BEHAVIOUR.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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ruben said:
Zorkikat,
I would like to have with you a positive dialogue, instead of a useless series of accusations and counter-accusations. Accordingly I will do my best so my manners of expression fit my real intention.

Not long ago, when you were at trouble with your many Kievs, you published two threads. One was called "Kievs unlucky cameras ?" and the other "All my Kievs dead". You say now they were not kiev-defamatory but represented the facts before you. I believed you all your Kievs were dead.

Now, with the help of Aki Asahi ribbons and f2eyelevel advice, all your Kievs are alive again.
These are the new facts before you.

Would you like to synthetize your opinions about the Kievs now, instead of your opinions about me ?

If you find this post unpolite, kindly remark it.

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...

Here we go again.

You've lost chance to have a positive dialogue. That was when chose to be "hostyle" when instead of discussing facts you decided to go personal instead, ie, finding "fault" on the person to show that nothing can go wrong with the perfekt Kamera. That proved that positive dialogue is not at all possible with you. "Dialogue" involves conversation between 2 people. But with you, it appears that it is always a one-way street: you talk, me listen; and never the other way around. You still have to prove that you are able to listen. Or read at least. The way you persist on pressing issues long after they've been addressed has proven that reading/listening is not your strongest point.

I say now, as I had always, that my statements about (not against) Kiev defects were never defamatory. It is only you who says that. Others who participated in that thread you mentioned have said so as well- and have effectively pointed to you that I was just stating facts.

I have already stated, some in this thread, others elsewhere, my comments about the recently resurrected Kiev. Even the posts which you deem to be my "opinions about you" contain these. I've mentioned how I find the Kiev shutter, its focusing, its shutter noise, etc. I've even posted a HU about the shutter with its new ribbons.

"Unpolite" ((impolite?), no. My only remark is that this post is so typical of you. You don't read.

ADD:

BTW, what helped me fix the cameras were not just f2eyelevel's info. The several mail exchanges with Rick Oleson (to whom I ask anything technical for some years now), and published material from Maizenberg all contributed to the effort. Credit should be given where it is due. I mentioned this before, but it seems your selective perception has filtered out the pertinent, again.

And not all the Kiev I have can be fixed. Two can be classified as "urepairable"- a class which you say never exists.
 
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ZorkiKat said:
...........You've lost chance to have a positive dialogue. That was when chose to be "hostyle" when instead of discussing facts you decided to go personal instead, ie, finding "fault" on the person to show that nothing can go wrong with the perfekt Kamera. ....
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Ok, Zorkikat, I do understand you and partly justify you. I have openly recognized it twice (and this is the third time) I have misbehaved towards you. So from my side I don't remain with bad feelings towards you while at the same time I do accept your feelings towards me.

Nevertheless, we both remain with a problem to solve and it is the athmosphere at RFF. Will we continue bitterly attacking and counter-attacking, or can we put aside past issues on behalf of the forum ?

The best formula I can propose you is that we both abstain from further addressing each other, both directly or undirectly.

The difference between this and IGNORING each other, is that I will not complain if from time to time you find the justification for traspassing this voluntary mutual limitation.

This is my best proposal on behalf of the forum and I am ready to hear and consider yours.

Cheers
Ruben
 
f2eyelevel said:
I don't get all of this quite clearly.

But, as ZorkiKat told you above, it seems that there is something wrong that cannot be corrected.

Any camera-related tech. discussion is impossible with you as soon as it comes to the prewar Contax (I insist on the "prewar" term not to get you confused with the postwar Contax models which have nothing in common with the Kievs) or the Kievs, these cameras being grosso modo similar. Because you have identified yourself to the Kievs. You are Kiev. You eat Kiev. You breath Kiev. So, any counterpoint opposed to your own point of view is misinterpreted by you as a personal attack towards you.

And since you seem to have no other interests than your passion for the Kiev brand (fully respectable by itself), any discussion is impossible.

I have no therapy nor tech. diagrams available in stock to solve this issue I'm afraid.

As for the rest of your words towards me recently : "fishy business man"... "member looking for a fight"... "past time fixer"... "barefoot mind walking in circles at en endless desert"... "self inflated baloon, without integrity, without honesty, without culture, without human relations awareness".... "kid turning his finger in his pretentious skilled nose"... "hostlyle Sicylian Quijote vendetta personal campaign to promote your business"... "grotesque behaviour" ; and now : "Salah Al Din"... "Mahdi"... Bin Laden"... they for sure speak for themselves regarding yourself and your problems Ruben.

Not speaking of insults towards me which you had included in red in your signature so that everybody could read them each time you posted, and which were dealt with by the forum moderators quite promptly.

Now you want to play Yitzhak Rabin declaring an unilateral seven days ceasefire period. But we are in March 2008 on an Internet forum Ruben, not on the Golan Heights on June, 11th 1967.

Howzabout writing compassionate spionage novels, instead of pouring the baddest part of your mind here and insulting people who never insulted you, to then yell at moderators' help like a little boy caught with his fingers in the marmelade pot ?

Not so long ago you posted an interesting thread displaying nice pictures shot with a Jupiter-3 50/1.5 lens you had just bought off eBay. Why do you not post some threads like this one again ?
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ON BEHALF OF RFF WELLBEING, I DECLARE A 7 DAYS UNILATERAL AND UNCONDITIONAL IGNORING PERIOD, DURING WHICH I WILL ABSTAIN FROM ANSWERING DIRECTLY OR UNDIRECTLY F2EYELEVEL PERSONAL POSTS AGAINST ME. I URGE ALL THE INTERESTED MODERATORS AND MEMBERS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS PERIOD AND INFLUENCE ON F2EYELEVEL TO CHANGE HIS BEHAVIOUR.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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f2eyelevel said:
...I experienced sudden ribbons breakage with ribbons that looked to be in excellent shape with no fraying at all and sound stitching a few days before under close inspection.
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The same thing happened to me with my Contax III. I had fully overhauled the camera except replacing the ribbons because they looked absolutely fine. After a few dozen shutter operations one of the ribbons broke without warning... so I had to pull the whole thing apart again to replace the ribbons. :bang:
 
ruben said:
....ON BEHALF OF RFF WELLBEING,....

...you find the justification for traspassing this voluntary mutual limitation....

This is my best proposal on behalf of the forum and I am ready to hear and consider yours.

Cheers
Ruben
Click to expand...

In 'behalf of the forum' and 'behalf of forum wellbeing'? Do you now see yourself as the forum as well? Are you now announcing that any so-called "attack" (imagined, perceived, or wishfully thought) against you is tantamount to an attack to RFF?

My proposal -to you, as I don't see any similar problem with the forum- is, read and heed.

How the heck do I even 'traspass' (trespass?) something which I do not even acknowledge? You imposed this on yourself, do not impose it on everyone else.
 
micromontenegro said:
During weeks, I've been trying not to post in these "strange" (to put it mildly) threads, but this finally did it.

It is not only Zorkikat who you've enraged with your your ongoing commenting about f2eyelevel's supposed materialistic interest, but also me, and I guess many others from the Contax (and Rollei 35) community who have chosen to remain silent.

Why? Because that person, in fact, has singlehandly provided more free info then anybody else in the net, maybe barring a couple of people (Rick comes to mind). Speaking for myself, not a month ago he guided me thru a meter cell replacement in my Contax IIIa, and needless to say, he didn't take a penny for it.

So I do take offense when Rubin says f2's contributions (the correcting of Rubin's mistakes) are guided by interest or monetary gain. f2 has proved otherwise again and again. In fact, some years ago he was noted for campaigning AGAINST the absurd amounts some people were asking (and getting paid) for Contax CLAs.
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Hi Micromontenegro,
Welcome to the FSU subforum. I have taken note of your protest, but unfortunately for your argumentation, the info you provide further indicts your friend rather than helps him. Are you sure you would like to know why?

You still can PM me and I will detail it for your without further publicly embarrasing your friend.

Here I will stop, to let you think twice. In any case I am somewhat happy someone has stood up to defend this duo, who otherwise seems more isolated than ever.

Cheers,
ruben
 
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edit: turning tables is certainly fun![/QUOTE]

Doing a victory dance in Jerusalem would be also fun. :D
 
Come on, my friends... What a crazy thread is this? Stop discussing about the sex of the angels, go out and take some photos !! Next week I want to see some shots from your Kiev, Zorki, Contax, Fed, Nikon ... :D:D

Franco

ps: here in Italy we say "ogni scarrafone è bello a mamma sua" ... :D
 
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