Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Today I was walking by the border of the sea, and next to me I saw a couple of girls laying by the sand kissing, and as I had my 15 on and ready, I made a couple of quick snaps... It all took a couple of seconds... They were in their business and had their eyes closed, and didn't see me or hear me... It was a public beach (not even a nude one) and they had their bikinis on... They were surrounded closely by lots of people, and it was a really crowded beach. When I started walking again, a few meters away one eastern Europe girl laying with other two girls, started shouting at me (trying to make the first 2 girls know I had photographed them, and she got it): “Hey you fool, don't you think those girls deserve some privacy?” and I told her: “No. This is a public place, and as you see around, lots of people have cameras and make photographs... If you want a more detailed explanation on why I can make photographs of anyone I want here, ask those police officers there, and they'll explain it to you kindly while I remain making my photographs, and about those girls, if they wanted privacy they'd be in a private place, but they came to a public place because they might enjoy publicity as much as privacy... And your comment is sexist, because you think I can make a photograph of a man and a woman kissing, but not one of two women kissing... Think a bit of that, bye...” She said: “You f**kin' as**ole!”
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
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feenej
Well-known
A woman threatened to kill me one time for taking a photo of her on her gf's lap. She may not have been "out". This is an issue a hetero might not think of...
Phantomas
Well-known
Yeah, as they say, "pics or it didn't happen!"
In this type of situation I don't blame neither you nor the commenters. When I photograph strangers, especially without prior interaction, I do it with self-imposed belief that I'm intruding, although I (try to) do it with respect. I do not expect everyone to understand my "honorable intentions" and thus I allow for a chance of negative comments, although luckily these hardly happen. If they would I'd just calm the situation but wouldn't necessarily argue my case or try to educate them on public space law or merits of street photography. And if I got my shot, I don't even bother.
You're not wrong, and I think you've handled it well. You got your shot, chick got her anger out, the other two made out, life's great. More photos!
In this type of situation I don't blame neither you nor the commenters. When I photograph strangers, especially without prior interaction, I do it with self-imposed belief that I'm intruding, although I (try to) do it with respect. I do not expect everyone to understand my "honorable intentions" and thus I allow for a chance of negative comments, although luckily these hardly happen. If they would I'd just calm the situation but wouldn't necessarily argue my case or try to educate them on public space law or merits of street photography. And if I got my shot, I don't even bother.
You're not wrong, and I think you've handled it well. You got your shot, chick got her anger out, the other two made out, life's great. More photos!
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Not one bit. Like you said, if they wanted or expected privacy, they should have stayed home.
Perhaps pictures would better explain the situation.
Ouch! Just 5 frames shot on that roll by now! But the day will come...
Cheers,
Juan
Gregoryniss
Well-known
I wouldn't say that you're wrong, but i would have perhaps tried to cool down the situation a little bit more and been a little bit more sincere. However, i dont' know the whole story. Regardless, you're right
Phantomas
Well-known
.... and the last time I was at that beach I avoided any such confrontations by photographing people who were too fast asleep to complain (and judging by those speedos, dreaming about lesbians)
(and judging by those speedos, dreaming about lesbians)
axiom
Non-Registered User
I will shoot her angry face and tell her that
"your funny face (and speech) will be on the internet tonight"
Cheers and ciao
"your funny face (and speech) will be on the internet tonight"
Cheers and ciao
DNG
Film Friendly
NO !!
Keep shooting.
You were right in everything you told them.
TS for them....
Can you post one of them....If you prefer not, that's OK too.
Sheesh, a fuss over some one taking a picture of a couple kissing....That's Crazy man
Luna
Well-known
If this thought crossed your mind then yes, you are totally wrong according to yourself.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Juan,
Wrong? Hard to say. My own view is no, because no-one should do anything in public of which they are ashamed; or, if they do (and we all do) they should thnk of another's picture as a reason to think a bit harder next time, and take it on the chin (as it were). Note for non-native speakers of English: 'take it on the chin' means 'accept the blow,although you'd prefer not to have received it, because you laid yourself open to it.'
My nasty,unkind, suspicious side says that they secretly wanted to shock others but were upset when someone else decided to 'shock' them. Tough!
Cheers,
R.
Wrong? Hard to say. My own view is no, because no-one should do anything in public of which they are ashamed; or, if they do (and we all do) they should thnk of another's picture as a reason to think a bit harder next time, and take it on the chin (as it were). Note for non-native speakers of English: 'take it on the chin' means 'accept the blow,although you'd prefer not to have received it, because you laid yourself open to it.'
My nasty,unkind, suspicious side says that they secretly wanted to shock others but were upset when someone else decided to 'shock' them. Tough!
Cheers,
R.
user237428934
User deletion pending
I'm just looking at the legal aspects and that depends on the law of your country I think. There are countries in the world where you don't lose your privacy rights when you walk out of the door. Germany is such a country for example, I don't know how it's handled in Spain. Publishing such a photo - as you described it - on the internet is not allowed in Germany. Taking the photo is a little bit different but you will find a judge - if you seek long enough - who might say that even taking the photo was illegal. Not easy for street photography.
But your reaction was not so good for bringing a bad temper down.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi Roger,
A moment ago I thought maybe the girls in the second group were lesbians too but they are not as open as the two kissing in public... That would explain (in part) their reaction...
I like kisses: I've photographed kisses occasionally for years: man-woman, man-man, and this was my first time for a woman-woman kiss, and I liked the scene because it was so public... The other girls just took me by surprise... Not shocking my subject but shocking other people around, was another first time for me today...
Cheers,
Juan
A moment ago I thought maybe the girls in the second group were lesbians too but they are not as open as the two kissing in public... That would explain (in part) their reaction...
I like kisses: I've photographed kisses occasionally for years: man-woman, man-man, and this was my first time for a woman-woman kiss, and I liked the scene because it was so public... The other girls just took me by surprise... Not shocking my subject but shocking other people around, was another first time for me today...
Cheers,
Juan
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Of course: I prefer to talk about my rights as a photographer, and recommend them to talk to the police, because that way is how people cool down. Years ago when someone says those things, I tell them to call the police to learn why I can make photographs in public places. If I didn't, they would think I fear them and we'd all end up losing our rights in a few years... I'll try to fight for our rights.
Cheers,
Juan
martin s
Well-known
I agree with that sentiment. That was the question, right?
The idea that you're actually surprised that somebody could not like being photographed by you is shocking to me.
martin
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Have these girls not studied their scriptures .... committing such an immoral act, and in a public place!
... tsk tsk!
... tsk tsk!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi Martin,
Looks like you didn't read well: the photographed girls were not shocked... They never said anything at all... They kissed, they heard the discussion, and they smiled looking at each other... It was other people who saw me making photographs who felt upset... That's what's interesting...
Cheers,
Juan
shyoon
Well-known
Personally, I avoid shooting at the beach because people often percieve men walking around taking pictures of women as having ulterior motives. I'm sure that's not the case for you, but I can see how it can be seen that way.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
emraphoto
Veteran
i stopped explaining myself a long time ago. people are usually bound and determined to label you a pervert and it seems like a waste of time trying to convince them otherwise.
i think it speaks more to their mindset than yours.
i think it speaks more to their mindset than yours.
Brian Legge
Veteran
I'm a fan of de-escalation. Yes, you were within your right, but jumping straight to a legal defense closes doors.
What was your motive in taking the shot? Is that something you could have shared instead? If the primary point of interest in your shot was the titillation, well, yes, you put yourself in a position that might have been hard to defend. IF your reason was 'shooting people connecting' or 'documenting how people relate' or 'its socially important to show this' or even 'I thought it was a beautiful moment' you can diffuse the situation in a way that might put others around you at ease and help.
Jumping to 'I have a right, you can't stop me' may be accurate but in my opinion obscuring your motive or reason for taking the shot urges others to shut down around you. Maybe I'm looking at this from an unrealistic karma perspective but you and I probably would have taken different approaches at the moment. That said, I probably wouldn't have take the shots you did because I wouldn't have had the balls to put myself in your position either though, so I probably shouldn't comment.
Closest situation recently was a topless girl at Seattle Pride who was advocating topless rights for women. She kept her arms crossed across her chest and seemed a little uncomfortable, particularly with cameras around. After hanging out in the area, I asked if I could take a shot of the message on her back. Everyone understood my intent and ignored me - I waited until they went back to talking to get the candid shot of her back I wanted. It wasn't an incredible shot by any stretch but I got what I wanted without anyone feeling violated/etc. I also kept open the opportunity to talk with her afterwards and potentially get additional opportunities and so forth. Getting aggressive and arguing my right to take the shot feels like it would have been a very different situation and would have closed doors.
What was your motive in taking the shot? Is that something you could have shared instead? If the primary point of interest in your shot was the titillation, well, yes, you put yourself in a position that might have been hard to defend. IF your reason was 'shooting people connecting' or 'documenting how people relate' or 'its socially important to show this' or even 'I thought it was a beautiful moment' you can diffuse the situation in a way that might put others around you at ease and help.
Jumping to 'I have a right, you can't stop me' may be accurate but in my opinion obscuring your motive or reason for taking the shot urges others to shut down around you. Maybe I'm looking at this from an unrealistic karma perspective but you and I probably would have taken different approaches at the moment. That said, I probably wouldn't have take the shots you did because I wouldn't have had the balls to put myself in your position either though, so I probably shouldn't comment.
Closest situation recently was a topless girl at Seattle Pride who was advocating topless rights for women. She kept her arms crossed across her chest and seemed a little uncomfortable, particularly with cameras around. After hanging out in the area, I asked if I could take a shot of the message on her back. Everyone understood my intent and ignored me - I waited until they went back to talking to get the candid shot of her back I wanted. It wasn't an incredible shot by any stretch but I got what I wanted without anyone feeling violated/etc. I also kept open the opportunity to talk with her afterwards and potentially get additional opportunities and so forth. Getting aggressive and arguing my right to take the shot feels like it would have been a very different situation and would have closed doors.