Kisses and insults...

Juan Valdenebro said:
1. Because it was a public and crowded place.
2. Because other people were making photographs around us.
3. Because my subjects didn't have any problem with me.
4. Because for the first time in my life people outside my shooting didn't like it.

How couldn't I be surprised?

Cheers,

Juan
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Well, I guess Spain is a lot more civilized. In NYC, I get this more often than not when sneaking a photo. AND in all fairness, your subjects were not aware of you right? Perhaps if they were they would have minded?

I have no issue with this type of photography...seriously. I'm just playing devil's advocate to those who think that photographers never intrude on or insult people by taking their photo. I'm of the opinion that just because it is legal doesn't make it right in all situations. People kissing... no big deal IMHO.
 
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Pablito said:
I will not offer an opinion on the incident but having photographed professionally all over the world, including quite a bit in Barcelona, I would NEVER invite police involvement...... (even if the law were technically on my side)
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Hi Pablito,

That's true... I fear police officers here too... But years ago, after someone called the police once, I offer that possibility first, and no one's ever called them again: but I always fear they come... Some of them hate freedom.

Hey, I like your new agüita'e'coco for a cool mind...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
Hi,

I was clear, but I was not rude... I spoke in low voice and it took less than a minute... She was rude from the beginning to the end... I was calmed and rational and that disarmed her... Well, except for her final insult...

Cheers,

Juan.
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Juan: just to clarify, I didnt mean to imply that you were rude. I was speaking more in general terms. :)
 
easyrider said:
People do have a right to their own image. If you are shooting people, it is polite to ask them whether they mind.
Since the advent of the Internet and digital photography people are much more sensitive about having their photo taken.
IMO people of the street or on the beach have a right to privacy. Photographers should respect it.
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The best photographs the world has just wouldn't exist.

Cheers,

Juan
 
jsrockit said:
Well, I guess Spain is a lot more civilized. In NYC, I get this more often than not when sneaking a photo. AND in all fairness, your subjects were not aware of you right? Perhaps if they were they would have minded?

I have no issue with this type of photography...seriously. I'm just playing devil's advocate to those who think that photographers never intrude on or insult people by taking their photo. I'm of the opinion that just because it is legal doesn't make it right in all situations. People kissing... no big deal IMHO.
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To me it seems you're trying to impose your morality on other people, no? your morality is what it is, but it isn't going to fit everyone else
 
elmer3.5 said:
Hola Juan, of course you´re right!

It happend to me many times, but if i tell the subjects to ask the policemen about rights , probably i´ll end in the local police station giving more explanations, different countries!:D

Y la manzana de la discordia? Where are the photos?:D

Bye!
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Hi elmer3.5,

They're coming soon! Just waiting for some good sun to go on with that roll...

Cheers,

Juan
 
craygc said:
Some strange views do emerge throughout this thread...

A forum about rangefinders which has its history in up close and personal social documentary along with a praised list of photographers that defined the genre and produced many defining images that were both candid and shot without any assumption or expectations of privacy. Makes one wonder why some bother to argue so vehemently against the style that has defined the rangefinder...

As for someone having "rights", if they cant be legally defended then they just don't exist. Arguing that moral or ethical over rides legal is an illogical process that only tends to allow individuals to purport their own personal fears and social expectations that if followed would conclude in everyone having to accept the lowest common denominator of extreme paranoia.

As for the portrayal of the initial situation; probably could have handled the 3rd party antagonists better, but as for the initial action of photographing the girls kissing, this is nothing more than a continuation of the practice of social documentation. Something that should be allowed to continue as a part of documenting social evolution. Imagine not having any photography of life in our parent's and grand parent's generation. Public life is out there and open for all to witness and as such there really is no distinction between observing and documenting.

Long live social documenting... :bang:
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That's it.

Cheers,

Juan
 
Without any personal judgement, let's assume Juan scans his pictures and puts them in the RFF gallery (or on facebook, etc) without model release.

There are fundamental legal differences between countries for this. I know Germany and France are different than the UK and the US, for instance.

What are the respective laws in Spain ?

Roland.
 
I'll back anyone's right to take pictures in public....but a shot like this makes me curious, what will you do with it? - apart from show it to the boys on RFF.......frame it, and put it on your wall?, put it in your album?....I suppose it just might be good enough to sell ?.....but to who? and for what purpose? - if not it wasn't worth the fuss!:confused:
 
PKR said:
Hi Juan; In the US it's public domain. The people who have almost no privacy are public figures. Actors, political people. These people make money by being public. The two you photographed were in public and are (I would guess) of legal age. I don't think they have any recourse. I'm not an attorney. I can tell you that a few things that US law holds for artists may be a unusual to folks out side the US. US law considers hanging a photo in a gallery publishing. It's the same as if it were in a national publication. I don't know if this applies (in all cases) to the web. So, in a modeling agreement, where the only publishing that would normally take place would be a possible gallery announcement, the agreement must include publishing. That opens a can of worms.. Also, in the case of where I am, SF, the photo you took wouldn't have raised an eye brow. On the contrary, It's possible you would have been yelled at for leaving someone out of the photo.. p.
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Thanks, PKR... Interesting points...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Personally, I feel photographers like Juan are going a bit far.

With a 15mm WA you're going to have to get pretty close to people, like literally in their faces to fill their frame.

Secondly, I just don't think it's being a gentleman to act this way.

Third, I have to wonder if he wasn't so excited to involve the police, possibly knowing that the other person may have been an illegal alien, and therefore unlikely to take him up on that.

Fourth, the labeling of the subjects with the "l" word is ridiculous.

(Moderator edit: name calling)
 
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ferider said:
Without any personal judgement, let's assume Juan scans his pictures and puts them in the RFF gallery (or on facebook, etc) without model release.

There are fundamental legal differences between countries for this. I know Germany and France are different than the UK and the US, for instance.

What are the respective laws in Spain ?

Roland.
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Hi Roland,

Honestly I have no idea... I guess a crowded public beach with two girls dressed and a kiss, wouldn't be any problem for the laws in a country where they get married and adopt children... But I'm no expert here... Next time I hang photographs, I'll use it if after development everything's fine...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Sparrow said:
To me it seems you're trying to impose your morality on other people, no? your morality is what it is, but it isn't going to fit everyone else
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Not at all. I love this type of photography. I'm just trying to say that if you do this type of photography, there are certain consequences one has to deal with. How you choose to deal with them is your business... but I just find it strange that people are surprised that people on the streets react the way they did to Juan and that some think it isn't within their right to do so. I'm just not surprised at all. I see it too much. I just took a street photography course with Joel Meyerowitz in NYC and we had 17 people out on the streets photographing in a small area. People (subjects) were getting pissed and some weren't. It isn't shocking here for someone to get angry and yell at you.
 
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Dave Wilkinson said:
I'll back anyone's right to take pictures in public....but a shot like this makes me curious, what will you do with it? - apart from show it to the boys on RFF.......frame it, and put it on your wall?, put it in your album?....I suppose it just might be good enough to sell ?.....but to who? and for what purpose? - if not it wasn't worth the fuss!:confused:
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Funny you should ask bet there's some beach stuff in there
 
The kisses and the fact that the two people you shot exchanging kisses were women are of no actual matter here IMO, despite the title of your thread (well found to catch attention here BTW, reminds the song Summer kisses, winter tears by Julee Cruise :D).

Well, you shot people at the beach, a third party got in and told you that you were having an improper behaviour, and became unpleasant, so what ? Casual 100% I'm afraid.
 
ampguy said:
Personally, I feel photographers like Juan are going a bit far.

With a 15mm WA you're going to have to get pretty close to people, like literally in their faces to fill their frame.

Secondly, I just don't think it's being a gentleman to act this way.

Third, I have to wonder if he wasn't so excited to involve the police, possibly knowing that the other person may have been an illegal alien, and therefore unlikely to take him up on that.

Fourth, the labeling of the subjects with the "l" word is ridiculous.

(Moderator edit: name calling)
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Best on this thread...:p

Cheers,

Juan
 
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