Are you sure? That's not the answer I got when I googled your screen name.
Hmmm, weird. Yep, I'm sure. Signed, Rodney Gorgy
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear John,
Thanks for your very honest reply, and you are probably right about generational differences (which still doesn't mean I can understand why you are right).
Yes, there is an unpleasant story behind this. In my mid-to-late 40s (which was the mid-to-late 1990s - I was born in 1950) I was given a LOT (scores of boxes) of slightly outdated Polaroid Sepia. I used to live 70 yards from the beach at Minnis Bay in Kent, and on an autumn evening (too late in the year and too cold for sunbathing and the like) I was taking pictures with my MPP Mk. VII -- a bit like an improved Graphic -- when I ran into some teenage girls (14 or 15, I guess) and they said, "Take our picture."
So I did -- I had plenty of film to burn, and it was getting well outdated by then -- and I gave them some prints. Then, realizing how it might be misinterpreted, I wrote my name, address and telephone number on the back of a spoiled print, and said, "If your parents are worried, and I can understand that they might be, here's my name and address and 'phone number. Please ask them to call me if they are at all worried."
Half an hour later there was a policewoman at my door...
Ever since, I have been REALLY sensitive to the targeting of photographers as perverts. I really didn't think much at first about taking the pictures -- it was, as I said elsewhere, a lark, and the sort of thing I'd been doing since my 'teens. Then, when I realized it could be misinterpeted, I did my very best to be honest and open. And what happened?
I showed the policewoman a stack of my published books and explained about the outdated Polaroid. She just sniffed and said, "Huh: an opportunist photographer." I had clearly done nothing wrong, and had gone out of my way to be as open as possible, giving the girls' parents the opportunity to contact me as one human being to another. When the policewoman left, I had the distinct impression that if she'd dared, she'd have said, "You've got away with it this time, but don't do it again."
You may now understand why I see even 'jokes' as a bad idea. It's a world-picture. When I was a boy, we made racist jokes and thought nothing about it. Then the world changed, for the better, and we realized that it wasn't all that funny to insult someone on account of the colour. And now it's funny to insult someone because they're a photographer? No, thanks.
On a happier note, during the summer of the same year I was taking pictures on the beach itself with the same outfit, and someone came over and sad, "How much is it for a picture?" He thought I was a 'walkie' photographer, selling pictures. Of course I was delighted to give him a picture for nothing, or rather, in return for taking a picture of him and his family for myself as well as one for him.
Cheers,
R.
Thanks for your very honest reply, and you are probably right about generational differences (which still doesn't mean I can understand why you are right).
Yes, there is an unpleasant story behind this. In my mid-to-late 40s (which was the mid-to-late 1990s - I was born in 1950) I was given a LOT (scores of boxes) of slightly outdated Polaroid Sepia. I used to live 70 yards from the beach at Minnis Bay in Kent, and on an autumn evening (too late in the year and too cold for sunbathing and the like) I was taking pictures with my MPP Mk. VII -- a bit like an improved Graphic -- when I ran into some teenage girls (14 or 15, I guess) and they said, "Take our picture."
So I did -- I had plenty of film to burn, and it was getting well outdated by then -- and I gave them some prints. Then, realizing how it might be misinterpreted, I wrote my name, address and telephone number on the back of a spoiled print, and said, "If your parents are worried, and I can understand that they might be, here's my name and address and 'phone number. Please ask them to call me if they are at all worried."
Half an hour later there was a policewoman at my door...
Ever since, I have been REALLY sensitive to the targeting of photographers as perverts. I really didn't think much at first about taking the pictures -- it was, as I said elsewhere, a lark, and the sort of thing I'd been doing since my 'teens. Then, when I realized it could be misinterpeted, I did my very best to be honest and open. And what happened?
I showed the policewoman a stack of my published books and explained about the outdated Polaroid. She just sniffed and said, "Huh: an opportunist photographer." I had clearly done nothing wrong, and had gone out of my way to be as open as possible, giving the girls' parents the opportunity to contact me as one human being to another. When the policewoman left, I had the distinct impression that if she'd dared, she'd have said, "You've got away with it this time, but don't do it again."
You may now understand why I see even 'jokes' as a bad idea. It's a world-picture. When I was a boy, we made racist jokes and thought nothing about it. Then the world changed, for the better, and we realized that it wasn't all that funny to insult someone on account of the colour. And now it's funny to insult someone because they're a photographer? No, thanks.
On a happier note, during the summer of the same year I was taking pictures on the beach itself with the same outfit, and someone came over and sad, "How much is it for a picture?" He thought I was a 'walkie' photographer, selling pictures. Of course I was delighted to give him a picture for nothing, or rather, in return for taking a picture of him and his family for myself as well as one for him.
Cheers,
R.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I just find interesting listening to people's concepts, you included... How could I be interested in your comments on my photographs, or interested in your legitimation of my photographs, or in commenting with you how I use my images? I don't know you at all... If you want to see a few images you can find some spontaneous and quick low resolution scans at flickr Juan Valdenebro... All I can think of you from your words is that you wouldn't be a good street photographer, even if you do a good photograph on the street sometimes... You said I did wrong, fine, but it's interesting to see the lots of other things you needed to say... Keep enjoying!
Cheers,
Juan
Sure, fine. I'm sure he's a great guy and deserves the recognition he gets.
This may be true, but the majority probably do not. Just look at this thread and you'll see more nickname style screen names than real names.
I'm not sure why I'm the bad guy here for trying to provide the other side of the coin i.e. that people aren't always going to be nice when you photograph them and that we (yes, me included) can be perceived, justifiably, in many ways by the people we choose to photograph on the street.
Last edited:
I actually really like some of your photos. I'd love to see the ones we are deabting blindly over.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
You didn't provide the other side of the coin: I did it on my first post. What's the sense in your saying "a girl got upset" after I said "a girl got upset"?
Cheers,
Juan
antiquark
Derek Ross
(Keep in mind: it's a fallacy to assume that a name is authentic just because it looks authentic.)
Fair enough. I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm sure I'd be very sensitive if it happened to me. I never meant to insult anyone here. I consider myself a photographer of sorts, so in reality I'd be on your side, and Juan's side, in each of the situations presented. That said, I do still think of the people who I am photographing and I totally understand when they get upset with people photographing them in public (as I see it a lot in NYC). It may be a right we have, but I have my own personal limits as well.
Huh? I give up.
Last edited:
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear John,
Your apology is more than gladly accepted. This is an example of why RFF is the only forum on which I spend much time. People actually try to understand one another. We all get testy at times, but mostly, we get past it. So I'd like to apologize in my turn for my prickliness over this.
Cheers,
R.
Sparrow
Veteran
Bugger, they finally discovered I really am David Bailey
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
No problem with you or anyone, John... It's just that the question was "Can't I photograph in a public place? and not "Did that upset girl I told you about, get upset?"
Thanks a lot everyone for writing... It's been great to have all your points of view!
Cheers,
Juan
Sparrow
Veteran
It would be considered a manipulation of process to accuse someone of something they had already admitted ... sort of playing to the gallery
Last edited:
ederek
Well-known
hmm, then why, in an open forum, start a thread and ask for opinions (e.g. "Am I wrong?"). Was it merely a rhetorical question? :bang:
Perhaps, but please describe "good street photographer" first.
Based on this thread, and another I recall where you described shooting on a dangerous "drug-corner", I only see one slice of what I consider a broader "street photography" genre. The "other things" were meant to move the consideration & your reflection of the beach event beyond merely a question of "legal rights", and to think more broadly. I'm not quite sure I "needed" to say them, but I do believe they may be relevant in answering your [perceived] question of right & wrong from something more than a mere legal basis.
Absolutely!
And the same to you!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
1.hmm, then why, in an open forum, start a thread and ask for opinions (e.g. "Am I wrong?"). Was it merely a rhetorical question? :bang:
2.Perhaps, but please describe "good street photographer" first.
3.The "other things" were meant to move the consideration & your reflection of the beach event beyond merely a question of "legal rights", and to think more broadly. I'm not quite sure I "needed" to say them, but I do believe they may be relevant in answering your [perceived] question of right & wrong from something more than a mere legal basis.
Absolutely!
1. Rethorical? I just told you I'm interested in people's concepts...
2. OK, I'll describe it: a good street photographer captures vanishing moments that most of the times don't last enough as for asking for permission to photograph them... A good street photographer documents reality instead of interrupting it or feeling "it happens but can't be shown"...
3. No. Talking about my photography in general and my internet galleries was not done because you wanted to help with the thread... And yes, you needed to say those things, but it's OK with me.
Cheers,
Juan
Sparrow
Veteran
Bollocks ... I did that for the third wife ...
Last edited:
Ok, but I did nothing of the sort. My posts were not that simple and were more about not only thinking of photographer's rights, but those being photographed. That's all.
