jamesdfloyd
Film is cheap therapy!
Out testing my Trip 35 today with small manual flash unit - just to see how they worked together (I was bored).
I got a roll of Kodak 400CN and after shooting it I took it to the same lab that did my Ektar yesterday. The outcome looked like mud...pure and simple. The prints looked like mud and the scans looked pink.
I am sure that there is an easy answer for this. I do not plan on shooting with this film much, unless I run out of film while on the road, so I would like to get some help adjusting this for the future.
Thanks,
J.D.
I got a roll of Kodak 400CN and after shooting it I took it to the same lab that did my Ektar yesterday. The outcome looked like mud...pure and simple. The prints looked like mud and the scans looked pink.
I am sure that there is an easy answer for this. I do not plan on shooting with this film much, unless I run out of film while on the road, so I would like to get some help adjusting this for the future.
Thanks,
J.D.
David_Manning
Well-known
J.D.
Kodak BW400CN is a great film...but it has limits.
It is very contrasty in full sun at box speed. In full sun, I shoot at 200ISO, which helps. This is probably reflected in the lab's attempt to get some dynamic range from your film, and muddying it to save highlights (just a guess).
As far as the prints...the lab printed in a color channel instead of monochrome channel. When you get the scans, just a simple desaturation will make them look like they are supposed to. Next time, tell the lab (if it's the same one) to print in the B&W channel, not as color film.
BW400CN is true black and white film, and very convenient...but not every lab knows how to handle it.
A few examples:
Kodak BW400CN is a great film...but it has limits.
It is very contrasty in full sun at box speed. In full sun, I shoot at 200ISO, which helps. This is probably reflected in the lab's attempt to get some dynamic range from your film, and muddying it to save highlights (just a guess).
As far as the prints...the lab printed in a color channel instead of monochrome channel. When you get the scans, just a simple desaturation will make them look like they are supposed to. Next time, tell the lab (if it's the same one) to print in the B&W channel, not as color film.
BW400CN is true black and white film, and very convenient...but not every lab knows how to handle it.
A few examples:
maggieo
More Deadly
The problem isn't with the film, it's with the operator of the scanner/printer. BW400CN is a fantastic film, IMO. Here's a few of my faves with it:
Wine and Texting, May, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
YouTube Mollie, July, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
The Big Show, July, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Dad And Domino Heat Up, July, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
El Alamo, June, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
All scanned with a Coolscan V ED and Nikon Scan 4.
Wine and Texting, May, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
YouTube Mollie, July, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
The Big Show, July, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Dad And Domino Heat Up, July, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
El Alamo, June, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
All scanned with a Coolscan V ED and Nikon Scan 4.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Never tried IT ...but I LOVE what I see hear EVERYBODY !
jamesdfloyd
Film is cheap therapy!
David,
Thanks for the guidance. I realized how to adjust the scans almost immediately once I opened Layers in Photoshop.
By the way...I've looked at your site in the past and really like your shots.
J.D.
Thanks for the guidance. I realized how to adjust the scans almost immediately once I opened Layers in Photoshop.
By the way...I've looked at your site in the past and really like your shots.
J.D.
jamesdfloyd
Film is cheap therapy!
Maggieo...great work.
As I mentioned to David, I've over come the scan colors and the outcome has been good. I had told the lab not to make any adjustments to the prints, but didn't think they would be that bad. Now truth be told, I was not really looking for an award winning picture, just wanted to test the small manual flash I had for the camera. The Trip 35 has a rather limited amount of adjustments and with the roll of TMax 400 I shot earlier in the day, I was adjusting the ISO setting on the camera to manually adjust for lighting conditions. I tried doing that with the 400CN and the flash. I will take David's comment about its use in the the bright sun next time.
J.D.
As I mentioned to David, I've over come the scan colors and the outcome has been good. I had told the lab not to make any adjustments to the prints, but didn't think they would be that bad. Now truth be told, I was not really looking for an award winning picture, just wanted to test the small manual flash I had for the camera. The Trip 35 has a rather limited amount of adjustments and with the roll of TMax 400 I shot earlier in the day, I was adjusting the ISO setting on the camera to manually adjust for lighting conditions. I tried doing that with the 400CN and the flash. I will take David's comment about its use in the the bright sun next time.
J.D.
David_Manning
Well-known
Thanks J.D.
Lots of my b&w is on BW400CN, because it costs the same for me to get it developed AND scanned at a minilab as it would to get silver-b&w developed ONLY at a pro lab. AND--you can use ICE when you scan at home.
Lots of my b&w is on BW400CN, because it costs the same for me to get it developed AND scanned at a minilab as it would to get silver-b&w developed ONLY at a pro lab. AND--you can use ICE when you scan at home.
maggieo
More Deadly
Thanks, J.D.!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
These are all taken on the 35mm BW400CN. I think its good stuff but most labs don't do good work with it. I also think it works best at EI-200, 400 spped just doesn't give enough shadow detail for me.
jamesdfloyd
Film is cheap therapy!
O.K. since this is an issue of using the correct lab, who has suggestions of a lab (preferably a national one) that is good with 400CN?
nimcod
Established
Just to put a little note in,
where another poster mentioned to tell the lab to use the b+w channel this will remove the digital ICE which might mean you end up with dusty prints, dependant on their machine, there really should be a "colour/mono" channel that enables the digital ICE and scans as a b+w with a slightly better curve correction for those films.
On the noritsu machine i print with, the input is designated by a picture c41 style orange neg with "mono" written across it, might be worth asking them if they have such a channel if they dont have experience with printing the b+w process c41.
where another poster mentioned to tell the lab to use the b+w channel this will remove the digital ICE which might mean you end up with dusty prints, dependant on their machine, there really should be a "colour/mono" channel that enables the digital ICE and scans as a b+w with a slightly better curve correction for those films.
On the noritsu machine i print with, the input is designated by a picture c41 style orange neg with "mono" written across it, might be worth asking them if they have such a channel if they dont have experience with printing the b+w process c41.
maggieo
More Deadly
FWIW, I Sunny-11 all of my shots and have Walgreens process the film. I do all my own scanning, tho'.
not_in_good_order
Well-known
I've gotten decent prints from BW400CN at Costco. As far as scans go, I prefer to do my own scans. Dissatisfaction with some element of every lab scan I've ever received resulted in my investment in a good film scanner.
I like the film, but I need to experiment with it a bit more since I have a few rolls of it in the fridge.
Click the image for a higher resolution view:
I like the film, but I need to experiment with it a bit more since I have a few rolls of it in the fridge.
Click the image for a higher resolution view:
Arjay
Time Traveller
I agree that using BW 400 CN at box speed isn't such a good idea because at this speed, the film exhibits severe clipping in the deeper shadows. The following picture was shot at EI 400. Note the clipping in the shadows on the trousers of the man at the extreme left-hand side:
The next picture was shot at EI 200. I like the smoother rendition of shadows:
I scanned these pictures on my Coolpix V ED as a 16-bit RGB TIF file (which produced a strangely colored tint), and then made a BW conversion in Nikon Capture NX2, choosing an red filter (IIRC) for best contrast and least noise.
Please also note that I applied a slight levels & curves adjustment with a bit of boost in the leftmost quarter of the histogram for more shadow detail; the curve for the rest of the histogram was straight at 45 degrees (flat, linear, no further tone correction).
Summary: I think this film delivers best results at EI 200. If you're looking for smooth tone reproduction in the shadows, then there are other, better films. If you're looking for a film to make stunning high-key shots - then this is the right choice.
The next picture was shot at EI 200. I like the smoother rendition of shadows:
I scanned these pictures on my Coolpix V ED as a 16-bit RGB TIF file (which produced a strangely colored tint), and then made a BW conversion in Nikon Capture NX2, choosing an red filter (IIRC) for best contrast and least noise.
Please also note that I applied a slight levels & curves adjustment with a bit of boost in the leftmost quarter of the histogram for more shadow detail; the curve for the rest of the histogram was straight at 45 degrees (flat, linear, no further tone correction).
Summary: I think this film delivers best results at EI 200. If you're looking for smooth tone reproduction in the shadows, then there are other, better films. If you're looking for a film to make stunning high-key shots - then this is the right choice.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I agree it's a nice film but it lacks real character IMO ... the look borders on digital at times.
It doesn't shout ... "Hey ... this is film!"
It doesn't shout ... "Hey ... this is film!"
PKR
Veteran
These are all taken on the 35mm BW400CN. I think its good stuff but most labs don't do good work with it. I also think it works best at EI-200, 400 spped just doesn't give enough shadow detail for me.[/quote]
I like the portraits Chris. Nice stuff.
p.
I like the portraits Chris. Nice stuff.
p.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Just wanted to say there are some extremely nice photos in here of BW400CN. I've only used it twice, and one of those times has left it sitting in my fridge waiting for processing!
Vicky
Vicky
David_Manning
Well-known
Another couple to try to convince you
ped
Small brown dog
My local supermarket has always given me impressive results with C41 B+W film. These were my first roll of BW400CN
ped
kg4nih
Established
More and more I prefer C41 B&W films (BW400CN and XP2-Super) over traditional B&W films. I like the capability to use digital ICE to clean-up the negatives when scanning. And, they're flexible when it comes to developers. I've developed them in C41, Rodinal and HC110. Two examples:
BW400CN (EI 250) in C41 (home developed)
BW400CN (EI 250) in HC110
BW400CN (EI 250) in C41 (home developed)
BW400CN (EI 250) in HC110