Kodak is working on a Chapter 11 bankruptcy (three threads merged)

Photographic film continues to be profitable for Kodak even in a shrinking market.
Perhaps their film products division can be maintained, spun off or sold off intact.

Chris
 
Kodak Problem in a Nutshell

Kodak Problem in a Nutshell

Yes, Kodak embraced digital technology.

No, Kodak did not embrace digital marketing, thus destroying their one asset that drove the science, technology and mechanical precision assets.

Kodak marketing the old way - dealer network, photo spots, trade shows.

Digital Marketing, the new way: Steve Jobs new product launch

(notice that Apple really doesn't do trade shows anymore)

Kodak did not need a digital camera, they needed a visionary who could reach celebrity status to drive the marketing of their products.

And by the way, I think they did make some digital cameras that had all the right features like PSAM control, RAW file format etc.

But they married them to cheap-a** sensors. Dopes. Put the Leica sensor or a variant of it in a decent precision made body and sell it for less than a Leica.

I guess Fuji beat them to that too.

Sad days for Rochester, NY - my home town.
 
I was always curious why Kodak never developed film scanners. In my naive opinion, a film scanner would be a product that would take advantage of their digital technology and simultaneously promote film usage.
 
Can't hurt to stock up on film stock regardless. Once Tri-X is gone I'm done with film, hopefully there will be a better full frame body that'll take my lenses than the M9 at that time, if not, oh hello Fuji.
 
I wondered whether a Chapter 11 filing was coming when it was reported last month that the Kodak board had named the company's general counsel as co-president.

Like Erik, I worry about the future of TMax! :(
 
Bingley said:
I wondered whether a Chapter 11 filing was coming when it was reported last month that the Kodak board had named the company's general counsel as co-president.

Like Erik, I worry about the future of TMax! :(
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... DELTA400 & DELTA100! ;) ... or HP5+ as a substitute for Tri-X.
 
buzzardkid said:
Whoops.

Guess I'm not going to stock up on Tri-X, which is nearly EUR 80 for 100ft with Macodirect in Berlin.

My other favorite Rollei Retro 400S for 100ft is close to EUR 40 :eek:

Question arises: is Tri-X really twice as good and expensive to produce? Don't answer that, it's apples and oranges compared I guess...

But still. No Tri-X for this puppy.
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I can't tell you why the prices for Kodak bulk film are like that but in Germany it's more economical to buy 10-packs of film right now. A 10-packof Tri-X can be had for as little as 33,75 EUR (phototec.de) or if you prefer macodirekt they sell 2x10 for 71,40 EUR. If you buy bulk film, you will end up paying 4,20 EUR for a roll of 36 exp. That being said, remembering the price of film when I was young and started shooting (late eighties), I wouldn't consider b&w film particularly expensive right now. I just ordered 20 rolls of Tri-X before Christmas. :D
 
StevenJohn said:
I was always curious why Kodak never developed film scanners. In my naive opinion, a film scanner would be a product that would take advantage of their digital technology and simultaneously promote film usage.
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The labour, time, and technical knowledge necessary to master scanning effectively would do little to stem the decline of roll film sales.

The single best way to scan is right after development such as with a Fuji Frontier system.
 
cosmonaut said:
I read a lot about Kodak but what about Ilford? What kind of financial shape are they in and I wonder will they pick up any of Kodak's formulas?
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Ilford is tiny and privately owned. They have one emulsion roller and limited ability to capitalize.

Even Ilford is imperiled by this development with Kodak because so much of the substrate and emulsion technology relies on a certain economy of scale. If Kodak does not consume, and Ilford cannot absorb, especially when overall worldwide film sales are in freefall, then there is little that can be done.

Sadly, 99.999% of consumers voted against film. They did so when they stopped buying film cameras in any measurable quantity to classify as a mass market.

All very sad.
 
Aristophanes said:
......Even Ilford is imperiled by this development with Kodak because so much of the substrate and emulsion technology relies on a certain economy of scale. If Kodak does not consume, and Ilford cannot absorb, especially when overall worldwide film sales are in freefall, then there is little that can be done.

Sadly, 99.999% of consumers voted against film. They did so when they stopped buying film cameras in any measurable quantity to classify as a mass market......
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Sales of Kodak's professional films were up in 2011. Ilford's B&W film sales also increased.

Jim B.
 
Question:

What is the latest situation with the Kodak sensor in the M9? Who is making it and where?:confused: Must have been asleep at the wheel as I don't remember who is doing the manufacturing/R&D since the sell-off....:eek:
 
chris00nj said:
The frustration you feel is why companies outsource. While we all love goods to be produced in our home countries and love unions, we all complain when something costs more as a result and often go for the cheaper alternative when available.

Kodak has to pay generous benefits to thousands of retired union workers. Agfa doesnt have that burden after filing for bankruptcy in 2005, hence they have les costs and can sell film for cheaper
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Maybe the government should outsource the country and stop paying any retirement benefits?

You do know folks pay a good portion of their salary to fund those benefits, I know the fund I am now collecting from is worried that they are only funded for the next 29 years instead of the statutory requirement of 30, and have $60+ Billion of worker's bucks in a vested system.

The portion of money donated by employers are in lieu of salary, and allow the government to collect taxes at the other end from retirement checks.

And it is for all workers, not just "Union" workers.

I know I worked two jobs, one for 30 years, one for 25, and neither had their retirement run by the Union, one was a non union job.

Or perhaps we should all move to some country where we have 12 kids who we hope will support us in our "Golden" years.

You have the option when you go to work to choose a place with no benefits -- or , better still, don't cash your tax refund checks so that money can help the government remain solvent? You can donate to your employer or the government as well, or be self employed then you can bitch at yourself when you think of retirement if you screwed up the math. ;-)

Some people get the education / training to find a job that suits their needs, present and future, some do not.

There are many places where people work more days, more hours, more years, and work til they die-- and Tri X is $10 a roll.

When Foma 200 was less than $1 a roll, the average Czech made less than $300 a month and a ride on the Metro was about $.10, or less.

Regards, John
 
Mackinaw said:
Sales of Kodak's professional films were up in 2011. Ilford's B&W film sales also increased.

Jim B.
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Irrelevant. Their entire film division is losing revenues at about 10% per Q. From their Q3 FS:

The revenue decline rate for the company’s Film, Photofinishing and Entertainment Group slowed to 10% in the third quarter.
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http://investor.kodak.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=115911&p=irol-newsEarnings

At this rate of decline for film demand, they will not be able to keep the lights on.

Ilford cannot survive very long if there are no new customers to film. By definition there cannot be new customers to the product because there are no new cameras being made in any significant volume to sustain industrial emulsion production.
 
They make a lot of parts and accessories for some cars made long ago, so if people continue to shoot film with old or new cameras, there will be a demand.

We were riding the coat tails of the Amateur demand for film a long time.

And who would have thought that B&W film would have survived the 60's, the big guys afforded keeping it going to support fine art from the P&S end.

I personally told the Neobrom director in Brno, who was anxious after the Velvet Revolution, to market products to go head to head with Kodak color that his market was the terrific time capsule papers they already were making in an area where they had low cost production expenses.

Well, he got a new Mercedes when they shut down a year later. I got 2000 sheets of paper air freighted to me to go with the suitcases I carried, and Foma screwed their US rep by going around him and trying to sell their products wholesale at higher than local retail prices.

They just did not seem to get that the niche market for real paper in the US was large enough for them, plus they easily could have worked over to the ink jet paper market.

Lots of things that should have happened did not, and lots of things that should not happen will.

I bought from Orwo, Foma, Neobrom, Efke and yes Kodak and Ilford, and said good things about the good products, but in the eponymous end, it is what it is.

Regards, John
 
JohnTF said:
They make a lot of parts and accessories for some cars made long ago, so if people continue to shoot film with old or new cameras, there will be a demand.

We were riding the coat tails of the Amateur demand for film a long time.

And who would have thought that B&W film would have survived the 60's, the big guys afforded keeping it going to support fine art from the P&S end.
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Photography has been riding the demand for motion picture film.

It will be very difficult to put new investor money into the industrial production of film manufacturing when your entire ROI depends on users of cameras made in the 1970's and 80's mostly, subject to the repair quality of a declining number of shops staffed by older men whose skills and knowledge are not being passed on in any substantial, meaningful way. Even for Ilford continuing to run an emulsion factory catering to a declining number of AE-1 will eventually...soon...not make sense. And creditors will make that connection before managers.
 
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