LA woman stabbed, killed taking pictures of homeless

I've felt the "swimming with the sharks" feeling when walking home from work at 2:30 AM on a friday night downtown and I dont even have a camera on me! You have to be extra careful and respectful. And when **** hits the fan I've got my knife on me. Things can escalate quickly and for what it's worth if I would have the chance to poke the guy who poked me first I sure would.

Also not saying my knife is for self defence, its more for opening boxes, letters, general cuttin stuff, not people.
 
The fact remains that the woman who photographed the guy who murdered her was acting within the law. He obviously was not. Demanding money from passers by and attacking them if they refuse the demand is a crime. Even if the passers by have photographed you - that doesn't confer the right to beat, stab, rob or murder them.

Last I checked, photographing someone on the public streets is not a crime that is punished by summary execution - not even in La La Land. This is supposed to be the United States, not Sadaam era Iraq.

Hepcat makes many valid points in his post #31. Some places are dangerous. Some people are dangerous. Apparently those who supposedly "run" our cities (elected officials and the police forces they control) have decided to cede certain areas of those cities to lawlessness and the rule by intimidation and violence of street thugs.

Given that fact, the prudent course of action seems to be either steer clear of those areas altogether or if you do choose to go to those areas, act within your rights and within the law. That, and if laid siege to, be ready, willing and able to stop the attack by any and all means necessary - including the use of OC spray or a weapon of some sort.

Whether done by politicians and the police or by photographers and the average person, ceding certain streets and entire areas of cities to the law of the jungle and rule by criminal thugs is a bad idea. These types will not always remain content to rule "their" domain and will annex other areas.

Sometimes a person doesn't have to go looking for trouble. Trouble has been known to come-a-calling all on its own. Taken to its logical conclusion, ceding "turf" to street thugs will result in criminal elements controlling entire cities and forcing peaceful, law abiding people out of their own cities, neighborhoods and even out of their own homes.

That's not what I'd call a viable city management model.
 
Being that this took place in an area trafficked by tourism, one has to consider that many "homeless" in these areas are more like hustlers, trying to make a buck by holding a sign, standing in place, etc. I work in the french quarter in New Orleans, so this is a similar scene to me; everyone is working to make a buck off tourism. The goal is to get someone to take your photo and then receive a tip. Point is, the attackers probably attacked not because they were offended by the snapshot, but because the young lady didn't leave a tip. Undoubtably a pointless reason for anyone to lose their life.
 
People who live on the streets are unpredictable and do not share the societal norms that those of us who post here take for granted. When you take to the streets to photograph that world, you leave the relative safety of "our" world behind, and you enter "their" world. If you're going to be in that world, you need to be prepared to become a part of that world and all that entails. If you don't have the survival skills to successfully navigate "their" world, then you probably ought not be there.


this bears repeating.

i don't want to blame the victim, but it's important to be aware of the dangers out there.
 
I am not in the business of dangerous pictures but I have a couple of friends who are, and for them
it is not the poor portion of society it is war photography. Well, I sometimes asked them about what they do and about the dangers and all agreed that it is more about diplomacy than guts. One of them told me of one episode in which he went after a battle and people reacted extremely bad toward all media at which point he just broke his own camera and told them that he understood perfectly the reaction that **** the war he didn't care anymore about the whole thing of being a reporter. Apparently after a while he managed to get into a much deeper relation with the same people and eventually got
more than he was hoping for as far as pictures. After this I always got into the habit of asking for any picture, even a stupid picture of a car or something completely innocent, and it is true, people react most of the times nicely. Of course, I am not trying to blame the poor photographer, RIP, just reporting this in the hope that it might help somebody else which is also getting closed to danger often.

GLF
 
I've felt the "swimming with the sharks" feeling when walking home from work at 2:30 AM on a friday night downtown and I dont even have a camera on me! You have to be extra careful and respectful. And when **** hits the fan I've got my knife on me. Things can escalate quickly and for what it's worth if I would have the chance to poke the guy who poked me first I sure would.

Also not saying my knife is for self defence, its more for opening boxes, letters, general cuttin stuff, not people.

You're so brave, I'd only give you my penknife when you pry it from my cold, wet trousers
 
I've stopped giving money to street people. I do give money to charities that aid the homeless. But I think giving money to them directly often feeds their addiction to drugs or alcohol.

Oh, and I don't photograph the homeless.

I have never given 'them' money but I am able and capable (when fit) to ask "Are you hungry?" and then buy a meal for another human e.g. baked potato with a fillling of their choice and a brew - I was wary of buying them meals in cafes as I have had people trying to rip me off and 'them' after I had left money - cain was raised!

Oh, and I do photograph the homeless (when fit). The bloody Tory toffs love a none picture of the chaos on the streets in the UK.

Pip pip!
 
This is spot-on. Walking among and interacting with inner-city homeless folks is much like swimming with sharks. Most of the time they'll just check you out for the sake of curiosity. Once in a while one will try to eat you.

This was a tragic incident.

I was a cop for 30 years and worked areas with large homeless populations for several years.

Those of us who are financially capable of owning and using cameras live in a much different world than those who are being photographed on the street. When you venture into that world, you abandon the relatively safe world you (we) live in, and enter into a very dark, violent, and different world where people are beaten or killed for blankets, half a bottle of booze, or a misplaced insult. It is an unseen war zone that is nestled, hidden and forgotten, inside every city in the US. In that world there are only predators and victims. They all try to get along the best they can, but they're merely existing. No one "lives" in that world in the traditional sense as we here contemplate "living."

People who live on the streets are unpredictable and do not share the societal norms that those of us who post here take for granted. When you take to the streets to photograph that world, you leave the relative safety of "our" world behind, and you enter "their" world. If you're going to be in that world, you need to be prepared to become a part of that world and all that entails. If you don't have the survival skills to successfully navigate "their" world, then you probably ought not be there.

ON EDIT: It's also important to remember that our jails and prisons are now the largest mental-health provider systems in the country, and that for many of the homeless, particularly those with severe mental health issues, our jails and prisons (as bad as they are) are a much better, safer (for them,) and preferable place to be than on the street.

Superb post 🙂
 
...
That, and if laid siege to, be ready, willing and able to stop the attack by any and all means necessary - including the use of OC spray or a weapon of some sort.
...
Why not spray prophylactic? Or better shoot him first with a gun before you shoot him with the camera. Safety first.
...
Whether done by politicians and the police or by photographers and the average person, ceding certain streets and entire areas of cities to the law of the jungle and rule by criminal thugs is a bad idea. These types will not always remain content to rule "their" domain and will annex other areas.

Sometimes a person doesn't have to go looking for trouble. Trouble has been known to come-a-calling all on its own. Taken to its logical conclusion, ceding "turf" to street thugs will result in criminal elements controlling entire cities and forcing peaceful, law abiding people out of their own cities, neighborhoods and even out of their own homes...
Right, a alliance politicians, police and street photographer should clean the cities with a iron broom...

Why you take photographs of people on the street? Because you hate people?

Oh, man, I'm out.
 
Using a smart phone does not tell anything about the user...

That being said, the escalation of any form of response verbal -> violent is the crucial issue for most conflicts today, not only between individuals.

Feeling the "right" or even "duty" to violently attack someone with a different opinion or religious belief was the reason for wars since biblical times. Apart from oil and other raw materials this is true today, unfortunately of course.

Any eye for an eye (stabbing back with a knife) will not really help to deescalate .
Taking a step back and reach for a dollar bill would probably have saved her life.
Being "right" and not having done nothing wrong acc. to the law will not make much difference now.

Being smart at the right time might save a life.
 
I have never given 'them' money but I am able and capable (when fit) to ask "Are you hungry?" and then buy a meal for another human e.g. baked potato with a fillling of their choice and a brew - I was wary of buying them meals in cafes as I have had people trying to rip me off and 'them' after I had left money - cain was raised!

Oh, and I do photograph the homeless (when fit). The bloody Tory toffs love a none picture of the chaos on the streets in the UK.

Pip pip!

Well said. And good on you for helping where you can.

The homeless are not different from us. They are generally people who have had some misfortune. Drink and drugs may be involved, but often they are ways of numbing themselves to the awfulness of their situation. I defy you to sleep on the streets and not want to be able to take some time unconscious away from it.

Personally, I have been homeless. I was fortunate enough not to become a street sleeper, but I know it was a possibility. I try not to forget that.
 
That really is a charming image ... and this thread needed that.

Thanks. 🙂

Can't see anything charming here, an unlucky person who for some reason we do not know has become an attraction point for a lady who will probably show her catch to her friends at tea time. Sorry, but a lot of the post I read seem to be written by people who had more contact with law books than with people in the street. Of course, a person killing another is acting against the law but if you ever had contact with people in the street you might know that there is a mix of reasons for them to be there, usually involving in different measure addiction, some mental problem, bad luck of some sort, some rejection of the society as it is or as they perceive it and that some of them for perfectly understandable reasons are simply mad at "the other part of society". Of course they are not "right" but it is highly advisable for anyone with a camera not only to use precautions but also to understand that whatever happened to them it was not "charming" and it should not be presented or perceived as such, even if the law perhaps grants the right to do this. I would suggest as a nice reading the book: "Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected" by Rory Miller, it is kind of self defense book but it really talk a lot about how different parts of society live according to different rules and how disregarding this reality in the name of some high morale and law might become a recipe for disaster when one get into contact with
certain people. If one goes out for a reportage on a Bikers Gang one cannot hope to invoke any type of law or rights, one gets into contact with them according to their rules and at one's own risk, if they kill that's against the law but one should not even consider in which ways the law is protecting the photographer at the moment of organizing the meeting.

GLF
 
Many homeless are mentally ill, with nowhere to get treatment. Many are addicted to alcohol or drugs. Most are hungry. Most are desperate.

I think it's lazy, at best, and grotesquely insensitive, at worst, to treat them as quick and easy subjects, much like animals in a zoo.

If it's a project meant to reveal something about the person or the situation, it requires the same planning and engagement with the subject as any other project. In those cases, this result may not have happened. Though, as has been pointed out by others, with people in these circumstances it may have anyway.
 
As a country we pay billions if not trillions of dollars a year to protect us from terrorists. Yet we pay next to nothing to solve/resolve the problem of homelessness and addiction. The byproduct is citizens having to curtail their rights just to walk city streets.
This is very true, and unfortunately, the case in many countries. I don't live in North-America but we have our content of desperate homeless people too.

I don't use to photograph homeless except for some situations in which the contrast is high between what the country claims as for its way of life and/or social protection etc and what I can see by myself. For instance I was quite surprised to see many homeless in the streets of some large Ontario cities, because Canada usually claims to be "different" re. that matter.

Where I live, I once was quite violently attacked by a homeless for no reason on my way back home after a casual office day. I was riding my bike as usual and was waiting at a traffic light when a homeless sitting on the pavement there, and to whom I hadn't paid attention, stood up, came to me very slowly without any offensive attitude, and suddenly distroyed my bike wheels by shooting in them with his feet with some extreme violence ; then he slowly went back sitting where he was before, as if nothing had happened.

Scary.
 
Why not spray prophylactic? Or better shoot him first with a gun before you shoot him with the camera. Safety first.

Right, a alliance politicians, police and street photographer should clean the cities with a iron broom...

Why you take photographs of people on the street? Because you hate people?

Oh, man, I'm out.
Wow. I seriously do not understand your blind anger... 😕

...a alliance politicians, police and street photographer should clean the cities with a iron broom...
I never suggested that. Nor did I suggest this jewel of wisdom -
Why not spray prophylactic? Or better shoot him first with a gun before you shoot him with the camera...
And I never said I hate people:
Why you take photographs of people on the street? Because you hate people?
We can't have a productive discussion if you insist on just making things up that have no basis in fact or reality.

I'm out, too.
 
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