Legacy Pro 400 and Rodinal .. Help..

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bwcolor

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I just finished one roll which was shot at EI: 200 Pre-Soak 5 minutes/Rodinal1+50/68deg/9 min./30 seconds of initial agitations then three inversions every three minutes. The negatives were soooooo dense that I could not scan them.. I've been doing a good bit research trying to find a good starting point, but boy was I off. I've seen others claiming up to 12 minutes, but without the pre-soak. Where am I going wrong? pre-soak?? Based on results, I'm thinking somewhere between five and six minutes. Any ideas or suggestions?
 
Whoa! That seems extremely long for the EI. When I shoot the stuff at 400, I usually develop for 8 minutes in Rodinal 1+50 @ 20C. Maybe try working backward from there?
 
I have had success Rating at 400, Rodinal 50+1 70 degrees, that is what it was, for 10 minutes, aggitate the first 15 seconds and then every 2 minutes.
 
If they came out that dense it would help to reduce development time, it may take a few tries before you fine tune your development to what you want. Try exposing a test roll at EI200, then instead of loading the entire film on the developing reel only roll 1/3 onto the reel. That way you only need to use one roll for multiple tries at getting the right times.
 
bwcolor said:
I just finished one roll which was shot at EI: 200 Pre-Soak 5 minutes/Rodinal1+50/68deg/9 min./30 seconds of initial agitations then three inversions every three minutes. The negatives were soooooo dense that I could not scan them.. I've been doing a good bit research trying to find a good starting point, but boy was I off. I've seen others claiming up to 12 minutes, but without the pre-soak. Where am I going wrong? pre-soak?? Based on results, I'm thinking somewhere between five and six minutes. Any ideas or suggestions?
Click to expand...

Something does not sound right here. All my experience with Neopan 400 & Rodinal indicates you should be very close to ideal. I suggest repeating exactly what you did before (being alert for brain farts) and see if the results are similar.
 
Bob Michaels said:
Something does not sound right here. All my experience with Neopan 400 & Rodinal indicates you should be very close to ideal. I suggest repeating exactly what you did before (being alert for brain farts) and see if the results are similar.
Click to expand...

Of course, you were my idol and example. That is why I was very surprised and why I'm wondering if the pre-wash could have been the difference, but from what I know the pre-wash should work to require more development time and not less.
 
bwcolor said:
I just finished one roll which was shot at EI: 200 Pre-Soak 5 minutes/Rodinal1+50/68deg/9 min./30 seconds of initial agitations then three inversions every three minutes. The negatives were soooooo dense that I could not scan them.. I've been doing a good bit research trying to find a good starting point, but boy was I off. I've seen others claiming up to 12 minutes, but without the pre-soak. Where am I going wrong? pre-soak?? Based on results, I'm thinking somewhere between five and six minutes. Any ideas or suggestions?
Click to expand...

I have used this exact combination before of pre soak with Legacy and Rodinal at 1:50.

I used to develop for 9 minutes for EI: 200 and 10:30-11:30 minutes for EI:400 depending on how overcast the sky was. If there was slight highlights then I would go for 10:30 and if it was heavily overcast then I would go for 11:30. I also pre soaked for 30 seconds and agitated once a minute.

So, my guess is that you overexposed your negs by another stop because either your meter was off or your technique was incorrect. The film could have been exposed at EI:100 instead of 200.

Alternatively, the film could be fogged from poor storage at the shop or left in a delivery truck? Your later suggestion of 5-6 minutes is too short in my opinion too fully develop the film.

I hope this helps in eliminating some variables.
 
Colin Corneau said:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=Legacy+Pro&Developer=Rodinal&mdc=Search

Either change your EI you shoot at or reduce development time. Are you sure about the developer temperature, also?
Click to expand...

Three thermometers in a Jobo.. not using Jobo for developer..just temp bath
So, my guess is that you overexposed your negs by another stop because either your meter was off or your technique was incorrect. The film could have been exposed at EI:100 instead of 200.
Click to expand...
Possible. I used a flash unit for fill. It is possible that this combination wasn't calibrated properly.

I ran a roll through quickly and have done as suggested above. I developed the first segment for six minutes.. not adequately dense. Now working on second development time.
 
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I went back and checked the meter on my RTS III and it doesn't agree with either of my two Sekonic meters.. when using Gray card with camera. It is underexposing according to the Sekonics... which agree with a few of my other cameras. OK, so now I'm asked about shutter speeds.. Ehhh gads... The meter on the Contax is off by a full stop. I'll have to test it in different light. I've shot Velvia through it, but used an external meter. Maybe I should send it back to Kyocera while I can.
 
I don't understand why anyone is pre-soaking. So far as I know, none of the film manufacturers have recommended doing that for many, many years.
 
bwcolor said:
I went back and checked the meter on my RTS III and it doesn't agree with either of my two Sekonic meters.. when using Gray card with camera. It is underexposing according to the Sekonics... which agree with a few of my other cameras. OK, so now I'm asked about shutter speeds.. Ehhh gads... The meter on the Contax is off by a full stop. I'll have to test it in different light. I've shot Velvia through it, but used an external meter. Maybe I should send it back to Kyocera while I can.
Click to expand...

an excellent meter calibration test is to set the iso at 250, then meter an average scene in normal sunlight. It should read very close to f16 @ 1/250th (or f11 @ 1/500th or f8 @ 1/1000th) This is the old "Sunny 16".
 
What are you trying to accomplish by pushing from 400 to 200?
Rodinal is not a developer that you want to use for pushing film. You will get coarse grain and high contrast with that combination.

I use only Rodinal for development and I won't be surprised if I have done exactly what you did time/dilution/film -wise.

But, I've never have a negative that is so dense that it can't be scanned.

That has to be real extreme. Something is off either on your camera or exposure.
 
I find the tonality of many B&W films to be improved when pulling the EI. The soaking issue is just a matter of habit and I always like to see what strange color comes pouring out. I started doing it to make sure the reel and tank temps were correct, but probably don't need it.

My setup ended up at 7 minutes flat for my development time. I tried this with two cameras and various metering systems and it seems to be a good place to start... contrast and lighting to be adjusted for in the future.

Thanks for your help. I can't account for why I've seen posted times from my seven minutes to twenty minutes for the same setup. Obviously, something is different. For one, I'm using a real man's Rodinal. None of that whimpy stuff.

I should also add that I usually do this sort of test under low contrast conditions.
 
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pre soak is a bad habbit 🙂 / actually it is a very special technique for different purpose /
R-09 is also bad - flat and grainy
*****
There is very old and good technique for Neg Film
Dev . = Part A X Min > /no rinse/ in Part B X min
 
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