Leica has guts

[airfrogusmc]

Most of the Nicanon fans could never get their heads around a rangefinder let a lone a B&W dedicated camera. OMG a camera without 1000 FPS, auto everything, what no live view and no color? No one should want such a camera...LoL....

I can tell you the files from my MM smoke the B&W conversions from my Canons and for the street there is not a better B&W digital tool.

 

[ray*j*gun]

I wish I had the funds for a chrome M-A. Probably will never be able to afford one so my mint M-2 will have to suffice.

 

[Godfrey]

Funny indeed.
Samsung/LG, etc. had large phones for years and people said "who needs this if IPhone is so small and compact".
Then IPhone 6+ comes out and look- so large, beautiful! I NEED one!
It only shows that people can be persuaded so easily... same with cameras, cars....

It is kinda funny. I've been thinking about buying a new phone and simply cannot decide between iPhone 6 and iPhone 6+ yet. I am tending to the smaller model ... I always have my iPad mini with me anyway!

G

 

[kshapero]

Had a 20 something over the house to go street shooting. He had a sweet Sony A7R and I went out with an M3 and my 50mm Cron. At one point he asked me exactly what is a rangefinder since this was his first time being exposed to it. I spent about 45 minutes at a coffee shop explaining the concept and differences to other types of cameras. I could see he was completely clueless. A hipster he wasn't. Me an old geezer of the old days. We still had a great time shooting the streets of Miami.

 

[MIkhail]

I wish I had the funds for a chrome M-A. Probably will never be able to afford one so my mint M-2 will have to suffice.

Don't feel bad.
I am in the upper 10% income category and also cannot afford the MM or any digital Leica. Or I can, but too many other things can be had for this amount of dough. Neither do I want to spend money on it- I would rather take another vacation and bring back bunch of pictures.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

There's some if's in this, so be careful.

A lot of firms make digital cameras. And, if they can buy monochrome sensors off the shelf then it doesn't seem to me to be much of a problem to make a monochrome only camera.

So guess they don't want to, or haven't thought about it...

Regards, David

PS And in my income category, I'd like a functional B&W/monochrome photo printer first.

 

[SuperUJ]

There are companies choose to compete on price; and there are companies try to lead by having a vision, being different for the sake of being different, feeding a niche market, or for many other reasons. There is nothing wrong with companies charging higher price for a products that are not mass produced, nor should we praise companies produce niche products. Let the market decide! There is no point to comment on buying behavior here in the "Philosophy of Photography" forum. With popular demand, RFF may want to start a "Psychology of Photo-equipment Buyers" forum.

Some said that the image files from Leica MM rival medium format. Lecia claims that the M246 is the first camera with dedicated B&W full frame sensor that can do video. Maybe, B&W is the next big thing for documentary films that typically use smaller cameras & need less crews. Who knows? Maybe, MF B&W only photographers feel that they now have additional options when it comes to digital cameras. Regardless of Leica is on to something big or not, what we should celebrate today is that photographers with different styles and needs get choices.

John

 

[nikonosguy]

Leica's Guts:

 

[airfrogusmc]

Don't feel bad.
I am in the upper 10% income category and also cannot afford the MM or any digital Leica. Or I can, but too many other things can be had for this amount of dough. Neither do I want to spend money on it- I would rather take another vacation and bring back bunch of pictures.

Or do what I do and take a vaca with the MM and come back with pictures.

 

[daveleo]

"Courage" or "guts" aren't the right words for me.
Leica *must* bring special products to the market. They have (I must guess here) very high fixed costs, in engineers' and designers' salaries alone.
1. Their people are not going to be happy designing plastic, consumer grade P&S products for Walmart.
2. With the high overhead / fixed costs, Leica would not make any money selling low-priced stuff.
3. Given that they *must* come to market at a high price, Leica must offer very unique products to support their pricing.

When I think about the above, compared to mass-manufactured, low-production-cost, generic-technology camera gear (most everyone else), it must be extremely hard for Leica to come up with their next best ptroduct. They have (IMO) a very small box to move around in.

So, I don't think they are driven by "courage" . . . but why should we pick over the semantics . . . I think they are smart and capable but they are stuck at the top of the world and can't really get off.

(I am dreaming of a Fujifilm true monochrome sensored X100"M".)

 

[Godfrey]

Leica's Guts:

You've gone and X-ray contaminated that roll of film for sure ... ;-)

G

 

[Pioneer]

Well, I am certainly glad they are at the top of their world because I am certainly having fun with what they are forced to put out to stay there. 😀

 

[Archlich]

"Courage" or "guts" aren't the right words for me.
Leica *must* bring special products to the market. They have (I must guess here) very high fixed costs, in engineers' and designers' salaries alone.
1. Their people are not going to be happy designing plastic, consumer grade P&S products for Walmart.
2. With the high overhead / fixed costs, Leica would not make any money selling low-priced stuff.
3. Given that they *must* come to market at a high price, Leica must offer very unique products to support their pricing.

When I think about the above, compared to mass-manufactured, low-production-cost, generic-technology camera gear (most everyone else), it must be extremely hard for Leica to come up with their next best ptroduct. They have (IMO) a very small box to move around in.

So, I don't think they are driven by "courage" . . . but why should we pick over the semantics . . . I think they are smart and capable but they are stuck at the top of the world and can't really get off.

(I am dreaming of a Fujifilm true monochrome sensored X100"M".)

Well said.

To justify the price tag, the "unique" product Leica brought us in the first place is the ideology. Have you seen other manufacturer talking about Cartier-Bresson or other ancient names as much as Leica did?

The M-M is the fruit of such cultivation, so does the M-A.

Never will big players make a B&W camera, not because they lack "guts" (won't hurt if they do - look at what Sony does), they just didn't make promises they have to cling onto to in order to survive.

 

[MIkhail]

Well said.

To justify the price tag, the "unique" product Leica brought us in the first place is the ideology. Have you seen other manufacturer talking about Cartier-Bresson or other ancient names as much as Leica did?

The M-M is the fruit of such cultivation, so does the M-A.

Never will big players make a B&W camera, not because they lack "guts" (won't hurt if they do - look at what Sony does), they just didn't make promises they have to cling onto to in order to survive.

I've seen Nike talking about Michael Jordan a lot...

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Well, I worry about Leica and niche products as I've seen several fall by the wayside over the years or, worse, cease to be available everywhere and only sold in a few shops. The distance I drive to stock up on foods that were commonplace a while ago is proof of this. (Thinking of Tiptree's Morello cherry conserve, marmalades and so on... )

And Leica, I seem to remember but no one else does, used to be mainstream in that they sold SLR's; P&S's; compacts; even APS and so on.

Just my 2d worth.

Regards, David

 

[Frida]

I agree with the folks saying it's a logical business decision rather than guts. Gutsy for Leica would be to dramatically lower or increase their prices, but it would also be illogical, as it's not part of their business model at the present.

 

[Wulfthari]

Most of the Nicanon fans could never get their heads around a rangefinder let a lone a B&W dedicated camera. OMG a camera without 1000 FPS, auto everything, what no live view and no color? No one should want such a camera...LoL....

I can tell you the files from my MM smoke the B&W conversions from my Canons and for the street there is not a better B&W digital tool.

Few years ago Nikon remade the S3...they sold them all and now it's a collectors' item.

I'm pretty sure if they wanted to make a Canon 8 or a Nikon SP2 they will sell easily, the problem is that the investment to make a new mechanical camera are huge and it's easy to sell digital stuff.

 

[Spanik]

Most of the Nicanon fans could never get their heads around a rangefinder let a lone a B&W dedicated camera. OMG a camera without 1000 FPS, auto everything, what no live view and no color? No one should want such a camera...LoL....

I can tell you the files from my MM smoke the B&W conversions from my Canons and for the street there is not a better B&W digital tool.

Just ran some Neopan 400 through the Canon EOS RT. 5 fps, auto everything, live view (without any blanking as on a digital evf), and no colour. Smokes fine... 😀

 

[noisycheese]

Exactly, especially the highlight. Nine out of ten of "Why don't they..." or "Why does ____ cost so much" comments are based on solid, reliable ignorance of the realities of both R&D and manufacturing, to say nothing of the nature of niche markets.

Cheers,

R.

Yes, exactly.

Leica cameras and lenses cost what they cost. So do Rolls Royce automobiles, yet no one (that I have ever heard of) wails about the prohibitive cost of buying a Rolls Royce. I have never wanted a Rolls, but I did want Leica M gear. I got to work figuring and figured out a way to afford what I wanted and was able to make it happen.

I am not "rich" by western standards. I am middle middle class, not upper middle class, not $100,000/year (or more) class, nor am I an NFL or NBA player or one of the hated and reviled members of the 1%.

If a person wants a Leica M badly enough, they can probably figure out a way to afford one, if they are willing to make sacrifices in other areas and make owning a Leica M a priority.

 

[Pioneer]

I finally figured out how to afford Leica gear.

I sat down and said; "Would my son and daughters rather I enjoyed myself in my old age?"

"Would they rather have lots and lots of photographs of themselves and of their own children as they move through life and grow up?"

"Or, would they rather that poor Grandpa denied himself and died bored and unhappy just so they could have a small pittance of an inheritance?"

It did not take much thinking to realize that they loved me and wanted me to be happy.

So I am quickly spending their inheritance. 😀

EDIT - I am leaving a letter in my safe deposit box to be opened upon my death that will explain it all for them. I have no doubt that they will be thrilled to learn that they have inherited my Leica cameras and a storage shed of negatives.