Livesteamer
Well-known
I like the last of the early Canon cameras. The model to look for is a Canon IVSB2 . It has the better finder and a top speed of 1000. I recently got one to try and it works well and I think the finder is a little better than my IIIc Leica. It is a little bigger and heavier than a Leica IIIc but seems well made. Look for a shutter dial with an arrow in the center of it and a top speed of 1000. There were several similar models but they lack the 1000 top speed. Not common but they are out there. Mine came from e bay as a Canon IIIa but I knew what it was, paid $150 and it works well. Joe
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
There were FED 1's that went up to 1/1000th but they are rare and expensive.
However, a FED 1 or Zorki 1 can be a very nice camera to use and, like Leicas, a lot depends on the state they are in and that is a lot to do with the previous owners. The Zorki 1 has the advantage of taking a normal cable release. Both have tinted RF's and coated lenses and sensible take-up spools.
Many people love the FED 2 and the Zorki 6 which has a lever wind. There are some decent lenses available for them too. The main advantage of the FED's and Zorkis is that they are cheap to buy and Oleg can work wonders with them. Some see the low price as a disadvantage and argue that it means they are NBG, which is a daft as a brush...
Regards, David
PS (Edit) Sorry, "as daft as a brush" is the current version of "as daft as a brush with no bristles". I hope that makes sense.
PPS (2nd edit) A lot of people who think they own Leicas are using fakes based on the FED 1 or Zorki 1.
There were FED 1's that went up to 1/1000th but they are rare and expensive.
However, a FED 1 or Zorki 1 can be a very nice camera to use and, like Leicas, a lot depends on the state they are in and that is a lot to do with the previous owners. The Zorki 1 has the advantage of taking a normal cable release. Both have tinted RF's and coated lenses and sensible take-up spools.
Many people love the FED 2 and the Zorki 6 which has a lever wind. There are some decent lenses available for them too. The main advantage of the FED's and Zorkis is that they are cheap to buy and Oleg can work wonders with them. Some see the low price as a disadvantage and argue that it means they are NBG, which is a daft as a brush...
Regards, David
PS (Edit) Sorry, "as daft as a brush" is the current version of "as daft as a brush with no bristles". I hope that makes sense.
PPS (2nd edit) A lot of people who think they own Leicas are using fakes based on the FED 1 or Zorki 1.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
"PPS (2nd edit) A lot of people who think they own Leicas are using fakes based on the FED 1 or Zorki 1."
Baloney, David.
Anyone who is going the whole mile in this day and age to use a Barnack type film camera that was hi-tech over 80 years ago now, does his or her homework and knows a real LTM Leica from a tarted up fake engraved FSU Leica wannabe.
Baloney, David.
Anyone who is going the whole mile in this day and age to use a Barnack type film camera that was hi-tech over 80 years ago now, does his or her homework and knows a real LTM Leica from a tarted up fake engraved FSU Leica wannabe.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Canon LTM bodies are available for sale within Europe. But I'm personally would go for one. Where is something missing in them. The Elegance. IMO.
I almost purchased IIIf couple of days ago, not because I need it, but because how perfect f series are made. On same if not slightly above M quality level. Including shutter mechanism.
The only warning I have for Barnacks first time buyers is VF. Some people (I have witnessed it) having problems to use Leica LTM series VF/RF. But they are OK with larger VF combined with RF patch.
If no issues described above are present, Leica LTM for:
Portraits. Is kind of cool. RF is bringing faces closer. But parallax is not corrected and you need extra time to focus and frame in different windows.
Landscape and street views are less affected by parallax and RF isn't really needed.
General use. As long as it is 50mm lens it is fine to use. Extra compact with classic Elmar, Industar lens.
And as long as you stay with 50mm and nothing else it is cost effective. Trying to go wider or tele will give external VF price which is half of the camera cost if you want decent one and bulkiness, awkwardness of use if it is universal external VF.
In my experience.
I almost purchased IIIf couple of days ago, not because I need it, but because how perfect f series are made. On same if not slightly above M quality level. Including shutter mechanism.
The only warning I have for Barnacks first time buyers is VF. Some people (I have witnessed it) having problems to use Leica LTM series VF/RF. But they are OK with larger VF combined with RF patch.
If no issues described above are present, Leica LTM for:
Portraits. Is kind of cool. RF is bringing faces closer. But parallax is not corrected and you need extra time to focus and frame in different windows.
Landscape and street views are less affected by parallax and RF isn't really needed.
General use. As long as it is 50mm lens it is fine to use. Extra compact with classic Elmar, Industar lens.
And as long as you stay with 50mm and nothing else it is cost effective. Trying to go wider or tele will give external VF price which is half of the camera cost if you want decent one and bulkiness, awkwardness of use if it is universal external VF.
In my experience.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Heh, I bought another Leica IIIb last week. Not because I need it, God knows I have enough LTM bodies...but because I'm addicted to screw mount Leicas. :angel:
DFigueira
Established
When all seemed decided, I'm now wandering on a whole new GAS level...
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
With a tiny bit of money in my pocket, the closest shiny thing is what I really really want.
David Hughes
David Hughes
DFigueira
Established
That's funny.. it all started with my parent's camera almost a year ago. The next camera is the 11th... until now I've spent about 120€ on cameras... and a little more on film&development.
I'm addicted.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I think the whole fake Leica thing is much over exaggerated.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I'll go along with that and add that the same applies to people behaving rationally when buying cameras...
Regards, David
Dralowid
Michael
Back to the OP...Others should comment but if he is looking for a genuine, 100% accurate, 1/1000th shutter speed then some of the old beauties may not come up with the goods even though they are marked as such.
Chromacomaphoto
Well-known
I really shouldn't have read this thread. I have always wanted one, lots for sale at local trusted vendor locally. Must. resist.
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
It may be difficult to get one at your budget with lens; however, they are addicting once you hold one. And if you would like to add accessories (hoods, filters, finders), then that's another black hole but I don't want to discourage you. Sometimes, deals can be found, or, you can buy your kit pieces at a time.
I'm partial to the IIIf's so have two of them mounted with different 50's and each with a SBOOI (Leitz 5cm bright-line finder) mounted to the hot-shoe for framing. A Barnack with a 5cm lens is wonderful for the applications you metioned.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
An un-hurried search is nice thing.
Waiting for a IIIc to present itself to me, in good condition and at a reasonable price, was fun and not stressful.
I would like to add that buying from a reputable repairman can be a great option, knowing it had the works restored before the sale. The rangefinder community need these people, and buying from them helps keep them around.
You may find a body with lens and save some money, but try to choose condition over price if you can. Thankfully there are lots of Elmars out there, they are a good choice.
Waiting for a IIIc to present itself to me, in good condition and at a reasonable price, was fun and not stressful.
I would like to add that buying from a reputable repairman can be a great option, knowing it had the works restored before the sale. The rangefinder community need these people, and buying from them helps keep them around.
You may find a body with lens and save some money, but try to choose condition over price if you can. Thankfully there are lots of Elmars out there, they are a good choice.
02Pilot
Malcontent
Indeed. I fell into all of my Barnacks. The first (a IIIc) was a contest prize. The second (also a IIIc), which came along virtually simultaneously (I had won the first one but it hadn't arrived yet), I found in a thrift shop with a lovely Summitar attached at a price I couldn't refuse. The third (a IIIg) I stumbled across in perusing KEH's listing during one of their big sales, and again it was priced where I would have been a fool not to buy it (or so I told myself). The last (a IIIa), which sat for quite a while without selling in the APUG classifieds, had a Summar screwed to it, but both needed a total refurb - my willpower finally collapsed and I took it in and put it back in service.
Good ones are out there, and taking the time to get what you want in the condition you want is a worthwhile undertaking. But sometimes it just falls in your lap, which is nice too.
css9450
Veteran
And if for some reason you do wind up with a Japanese clone, you can always cover the logo with tape. Silver duct tape might match well. The elegance will be there! Think of it as the reverse of what people do with the red Leica logos on their Ms.
DFigueira
Established
It was mentioned many times. Is the IIIc kinda a holy grail on the whole series?
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
LOL, I guess guys in the Anglosphere — particularly the US Americans — love it because it's an upscale Argus, and material-wise, it's the same: aluminium!
And: the Holy Grail was and maybe still is (in) Portugral!
cassel
Well-known
To me "holy grail" generally means most desirable - rarest - best -- not necessarily in that order. To me that could mean:
IIIc K - wartime "stepper" with special bearings/shutter
IIIg - last of the line and built in brightlines
IIg -- yep -- some were made
Leica 72 - half frame -- cool and rare
Maybe even the 250 cameras would be the "holy grail" to some.
There are other rare variants like the Swedish Crown cameras but you get the idea. Anyway, I would not call a plain-jane IIIc the holy grail--- they are common and the cheapest of the bunch (generally)
Doubtful it was factory made (likely a conversion only sort of deal) but I really like the IIIa in Black