Leica LTM Leica IIIA - take up spool stuck

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
Blavbec

Blavbec

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Nov 21, 2012
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Hello, I'm a new Leica-owner since I received a beautiful IIIA (1938) with Summar, bought on an auction. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem: I can't get the take up spool out of the camera. What am I doing wrong? I tried to pull it out with a pair of tweezers, the spool came out a bit, but plopped back again as if something is holding it. Is it not supposed to just fall out of the camera as you open it up? Regards, Wim
 
Make certain that all of the film is rewound on to it i.e. not catching on the edge. Get your tweezers and ease it right out: if you lose a little film so be it.

Yes it comes out with fingers pulling as a rule, but old cameras can be quirky.
 
Hi,

They sometimes get stuck but should yield. The spring back suggests it is well and truly stuck as the spring is (from memory) part of the clutch mechanism.

In your shoes I'd get a technician to sort it out. It no big deal and there's lots of accidents you could have and spoil the camera if attempting it yourself. Hope this doesn't sound rude...

Regards, David
 
Thanks for the advice, that's a good idea, better not spoil the camera. There is no film in it, it is brand new (for me).
 
Just to make sure there's not a bit of film stuck to the spool from the previous owner, take the lens off, set the shutter to time using the slow speed dial, and open the shutter. The other thing you could try is make sure the rewind/advance lever is set to advance, wind it on and fire the shutter. Do this a couple of times and see if that helps.
 
Is the camera set to rewind? I've no idea if that hinders the process of getting the spool out, but ...
 
Thanks, Presspass, I tried but couldn't see any film rests. I fired the shutter a lot of times, but still... Thanks, Jerevan, I tried to take the spool out with the camera set to rewind, and set on advance, but it didn't make any difference so far.
 
My Leica If did that. The take out spool was stuck. I removed it with a pair of needle nose pliers. It needed more grab than a pair of tweezers would have afforded. I then lubricated it lightly with WD40 and inserted and removed it numerous times until it became easier. Once that happened, I wiped away any excess oil , loaded film and took pics.
It has always been tight since, but at least not stuck. Camera has shown no issues in performance, takes great pics.
 
Hi,

If it will help, the take-up spool is hollow and slips over a long, thin barrel shaped spring. It's a barrel designed to be thin or thinner with the spool on it.

It is mounted on a spindle that connects directly to the wind on knob and turns with it, obviously. But the barrel is not directly connected to the wind on knob although mounted on the spindle.

Inside the barrel shaped spring is another conventional coil spring around the spindle that pushes them up against the end of the wind on knob so that it will turn with it by friction and stop when enough (one frame) has been taken up and the sprockets stop turning but the rewind knob continues.

Because of the blind and the changing diameter of the film on the spool the wind on knob turns round the same amount each time; the blinds move the same amount but the take up spool can only turn enough for the single frame to go around or half way around it. In other words a slipping clutch.

The coiled spring pushing the spool etc against the wind on knob is what I think flicked the spool back for you. There's a cross section showing it all here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/heritagefutures/4912092755/in/pool-camerawiki/

but it's a little complicated without someone pointing to the various bits and pieces (and this is a very rough and ready explanation). FWIW, I worry because whatever caused the spool to jam may also have jammed the clutch in place: mostly the clutches work loose and the film spews off the spool and jams the camera and/or rips the film.

Regards, David
 
They do get very stiff with age, I'd go for the 'needle nosed' or 'rat nosed' pliers approach.Once it is out all will become obvious.
 
I had a condition like yours.

Used a pliers to get the spool off.

Changed spools. Now it works just fine.

I haven't examined the culprit, the take up spool, but I plan to!
 
I think Bill's suggestion is best, if you have the luxury of switching out spools until you find one that fits better.
Always having to pull the spool with pliers to load the camera is a pain, and I keep one in my kit just for this.
 
Thanks, David, for the explanation. Thank you all for the advices. Using pliers, though, makes me fear crushing the spool or pulling out part of the mechanism. Better ask a technician to have a look at it. Kind regards, Wim
 
Hi,

All part of the service.

I just hope I'm right about it all, meaning the detail. It's a long time since I had one in bits and they all (FED and Zorki too) start to blend into one after a while.

Regards, David
 
Blavbec said:
Thanks, David, for the explanation. Thank you all for the advices. Using pliers, though, makes me fear crushing the spool or pulling out part of the mechanism. Better ask a technician to have a look at it. Kind regards, Wim
Click to expand...

Ask the tech how he pulled out the spool.
;)

Good luck and enjoy the camera when you get it back. These things are wonderful.
 
A little update: I went to a very experienced tech (thanks to Erik). The tech tried to pull it out with a pliers, but that didn'n't work. He had to remove the rewind knob, and carefully hammer the shaft/spindle out of the spool. It was badly corroded, as if it was glued to the spool. All is cleaned now, I can start taking pictures with it! Thanks for the advices!
 
Thanks for the feedback, you've no idea how rare it is...

Enjoy the camera and let us know how you get on.

Regards, David
 
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