Leica LTM Leica IIIC K - share info and questions

[Mr_Flibble]

Acquired #391866 today (without the Summicron),
It's 37 units away from my unmarked "K" that was delivered to the US Army of the Occupation in august 1945.

I wonder if this one might be an unmarked "K" as well. Anyone with access to the ledgers who can clear this up for me?

 

[LeicaTom]

Acquired #391866 today (without the Summicron),
It's 37 units away from my unmarked "K" that was delivered to the US Army of the Occupation in august 1945.

I wonder if this one might be an unmarked "K" as well. Anyone with access to the ledgers who can clear this up for me?

100% SURE if it ha the Z = zeit setting on the shutter speed dial, then it's a IIIC K built from the WW2 restposten, one of those 200/250 so cameras built in July-August 1945.

Congrats, wish I could have picked this one up for a shooter.

Tom

 

[Greyscale]

I can confirm that it does indeed have the Z setting. I will now write on the chalkboard 100 times:

"I should have asked someone about the Z"
"I should have asked someone about the Z"
"I should have asked someone about the Z"
"I should have asked someone about the Z"
"I should have asked someone about the Z"
"I should have asked someone about the Z"...

I am officially "that" guy. And Rick is "that guy who..."

Live and learn.:bang:

😱😉

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Thanks Tom,

Mike, I definitely owe you one...or several 😉

 

[Greyscale]

Next (first) time I am in the Netherlands, you can buy me several pints of good Dutch beer. :-D

 

[Mr_Flibble]

And here they are together

 

[martinjames]

100% SURE if it ha the Z = zeit setting on the shutter speed dial, then it's a IIIC K built from the WW2 restposten, one of those 200/250 so cameras built in July-August 1945.

Congrats, wish I could have picked this one up for a shooter.

Tom

My unmarked K (#393534) is also one of those Summer 1945 cameras. Mine has the B mark instead of Z. Did these cameras mark Leica's first use of B for bulb, rather than Z for zeit?

 

[Greyscale]

And here they are together

A breeding pair. :-D

 

[jcrutcher]

100% SURE if it ha the Z = zeit setting on the shutter speed dial, then it's a IIIC K built from the WW2 restposten, one of those 200/250 so cameras built in July-August 1945.

Congrats, wish I could have picked this one up for a shooter.

Tom

I have 391949 with a 50mm Elmar. Could they be brothers? Where is the serial number on a Elmar by the way?

Thank you, I'll post photo's tomorrow of the camera.

Jim

L1010223.jpg by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr



L1010215.jpg by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr


L1010211.jpg by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr

 

[jcrutcher]

Photo's added. 391949

 

[Mr_Flibble]

The serial number for the Elmar is on the black/brass bezel around the lens.

Your camera serial number is within a 100 units of both of mine.

 

[jcrutcher]

Thanks the Elmar Serial is,

595263

When I bought the camera I was told it was the original lens. No way for me to tell. I had Youxin do a CLA. He didn't think it was a "K" however he felt it was built in 44-46. It's a nice shooter my favorite Barnack I own.


Jim

 

[martinjames]

Another of the Summer 1945 IIIcK cameras with an early 1950's coated Elmar. Note the B setting mark, apparently a change from the 391xxx group.

 

[WJJ3]

http://www.lemonsha.com/item/84184.html

 

[Jerzyw]

i am pretty new to RFF and came across this thread just recently. I have no K, no Grey no Military wartime cameras in my collection, I have however few wartime IIIc and two early postwar (400xxx). Currently I an working on an article for VIDOM and have done some investigations on the cameras I have.
Wartime and postwar IIIc are mechanically different cameras. In internal naming convention it is 42-215 and 42-216. Some people call them type 1 and Type 2. It is not only step, screws on the top plate, diopter knob which differes them. The diecast, shutter mechanism, clockwork, rewind clutch and others that are different.
i am attaching few fotos showing inside of 389301 and 400384. 389301 was factory converted by adding flash sync, however all other components have been retained.
And there was discussion of ball bearings. Here is a photo of 389301 showing main shaft and gear on the release shaft. There is another ball bearing in uper part of main shaft and ball bearings on the small curtain drums, not shown here. As per my information the K had additional bearing on wind and rewind axes. 389301 is beyond the number listed by Lager as half race, however is such. There is no evidence that is has been modified (except flash sync). Germany engraving on the top plate identifies production after WWII.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yes, the top plate of your 389301 - was it originally grey?- has been replaced, because before the serial number is Nr. and not No. The change is done somewere in the fifties.

I did not find the two thin lightshields of your 389301 in my No 387599. Maybe because of the lack of those my camera leaked light.

Erik.

 

[Jerzyw]

Erik, you are right, switch from No to Nr was in 1951. I have no evidence that it was grey in the past. as to the lightshields - you mean those under front plate or under top cover? the later may be needed becaused of different main bodies, see below

 

[Erik van Straten]

Interesting, how do you know that the change from No to Nr. was in 1951? I've been looking a long time for the answer of this question.

I mean the light shields under the top cover. I solved my problem with some light tight black plastic foil. I wonder if the ones from my camera are lost in time or that yours are added later.

Erik.

 

[Jerzyw]

Publication of Leica Historica Germany 25 Jahre Leica Historica, Umbauten von Kameras mit Gewindeanschluss, Dr. M. Wagner.
Btw, my 389301 has stepped top cover, Leica must have had still old stock of such top covers in order to replace it early fifties. Lightshields:the right one (around wind shaft is placed under the top cover while the other was placed in the film cassette compartment and held through the fork.
I will be opening another wartime, red curtain next week, I will check and report existence of shields

 

[Erik van Straten]

I will be opening another wartime, red curtain next week, I will check and report existence of shields

OK, very interesting, thank you for this information.

I have a red curtain IIIc too, 374820. I do not want to change the curtains, but I am interested in the inside of the camera. Would be great if you make some pictures.

Erik.