Bar8barian
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Leica LTM Leica IIIC K - share info and questions
- Thread starter CameraQuest
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Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
A Luftwaffen-eigentum IIIc out in the open! That is going to be interesting!
😀
😀
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Bar8barian
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Yan Silis
Member
Could you check it for genuine proof? I have an offer to buy and a bit ****ting:
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Looks authentic, but you may want to contact Jim Lager to be certain.
If you're really into Luftwaffe / Wehrmacht Leica items, you may also want to track down a copy of Jim's book, 'Wehrmacht Leica'. Most all the known serial numbers and delivery dates are listed.
If you're really into Luftwaffe / Wehrmacht Leica items, you may also want to track down a copy of Jim's book, 'Wehrmacht Leica'. Most all the known serial numbers and delivery dates are listed.
Yan Silis
Member
Thanks, how to contact Jim Lager?
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Yan Silis
Member
Thank you for sharing mr.Lager's contacts, he is really great expert and wonder honour gentleman, I feel much gratefull to him and want to make big big compliment to his experience, magic insight and strong logic.
This camera is fake! And even isn't good fake...
What I have now:
1)He has photo of real #390416 and it is much different as I sent to him
2)It is not marked correctly
3)At this time the Luftwaffen-Eigentum marking would not have been on the rear vulcanite.
4)The paint is not correct and camera was repainted not so long time ago.
5)The lettering is not Leitz work - not correct letters and not match distance between letters.
6)batch 390401-390425 for the Luftwaffe
dated 17.2.44 shipment 9912 written as Luftwaffe (nor "Luftwaffen") in the Leitz Wetzlar delivery ledgers.
7)Screws on the sides of top plate are chromed (!), must be grey painted.
8)On the bottom, inside, camera is semi-black painted. Lol (they all were grey because of deficit of black paint), but it have to be also clear grey.
9)Character of shadows on bootom side's paint of inner elements says that there was a standard plate with instruction how to load film. Now it is lost. Why?
10)Character of brass oxidation on the shaped elements tells us that it was shaped at least few years ago - too light, have to be much deeper and dark oxidation on it.
11)Places and steps of shapes are not correct for normal wear - it is made in thin woulds (look at the viewfinder window) which is not contact anything in normal use. But really does when it is polished by the rag for make vintage look.
12)The degree of top plate paint's wear is not match to vulcanite's shape.
13)Character of vulcanite relief is not match to genuine paint (much more rude and too much of paint)
So, it is fake! And today I will get few mighty friends with me to the meeting with the seller, catch him and make his face a bit "Luftwaffen-Eigentum".
Thank you, mr.Lager - you saved me 3000 bucks!
This camera is fake! And even isn't good fake...
What I have now:
1)He has photo of real #390416 and it is much different as I sent to him
2)It is not marked correctly
3)At this time the Luftwaffen-Eigentum marking would not have been on the rear vulcanite.
4)The paint is not correct and camera was repainted not so long time ago.
5)The lettering is not Leitz work - not correct letters and not match distance between letters.
6)batch 390401-390425 for the Luftwaffe
dated 17.2.44 shipment 9912 written as Luftwaffe (nor "Luftwaffen") in the Leitz Wetzlar delivery ledgers.
7)Screws on the sides of top plate are chromed (!), must be grey painted.
8)On the bottom, inside, camera is semi-black painted. Lol (they all were grey because of deficit of black paint), but it have to be also clear grey.
9)Character of shadows on bootom side's paint of inner elements says that there was a standard plate with instruction how to load film. Now it is lost. Why?
10)Character of brass oxidation on the shaped elements tells us that it was shaped at least few years ago - too light, have to be much deeper and dark oxidation on it.
11)Places and steps of shapes are not correct for normal wear - it is made in thin woulds (look at the viewfinder window) which is not contact anything in normal use. But really does when it is polished by the rag for make vintage look.
12)The degree of top plate paint's wear is not match to vulcanite's shape.
13)Character of vulcanite relief is not match to genuine paint (much more rude and too much of paint)
So, it is fake! And today I will get few mighty friends with me to the meeting with the seller, catch him and make his face a bit "Luftwaffen-Eigentum".
Thank you, mr.Lager - you saved me 3000 bucks!
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Wow! What great info. Just goes to show that you can't take everything at face value, particularly when it comes to these cameras.
Yan Silis
Member
Thank you, Vince! You saved my ass!
Vince Lupo
Whatever
You're quite welcome -- we're all in this together, so anything that can benefit both you and future buyers is a win-win. I'm also glad we have a tremendous and generous resource in Jim Lager.
BTW I noticed that you had another thread regarding military lenses -- did you show the lens to Jim?
BTW I noticed that you had another thread regarding military lenses -- did you show the lens to Jim?
Yan Silis
Member
Yes, I have answer about one of them and kindly wait for second. Also I made request to Leica-historica deutsche society, to Axel Rosswog and his redaction group.
W.haven lense is from official military batch 16.12.40 on shipment 20569, but to Wien, nor Wilhelmshaven. Too far from the cold deep water, but... The word "haven" mean "cave" or "vault", and really in Vienna there was only kriegsmarine point - Kriegsmarine Wien Kriegsarchiv.
It made me hope that it is something more than just additionly rare marine engraving on the genuine military lens to add worth (too complicated for scammers). Will continue investigation...
Vienna Marine soldiers and Erich Raeder
sabears
Member
Beware: as far i've researched all the military deliveries were to Berlin ( here there was the "Acquisitions Department" of the German Army in Berlin - Beschaffungsamt der Wehrmacht ) and from there routed to the various units. The only exceptions are some well-known consignments sent to ports and units of the Kriegsmarine.
Wien did not have an office of that kind and no one could authorize different procedures.
However I strongly recommend if you're interested in the subject follow the advice that I gave here, you will find more news of those that I can give:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2194591#post2194591
Hope this helps, kind regards.
Wien did not have an office of that kind and no one could authorize different procedures.
However I strongly recommend if you're interested in the subject follow the advice that I gave here, you will find more news of those that I can give:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2194591#post2194591
Hope this helps, kind regards.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Could you check it for genuine proof? I have an offer to buy and a bit ****ting:
This is a fake, well first it's not even a "K" model, there's no stamp on the top plate and post 1940 cameras NEVER had the Luftwaffen markings stamped into the vulcanite.
(there's also other horrible mistakes, like bad color paint, open chrome screws, also a pre 1943 slow speed dial)
*this is one of those Eastern Bloc fakes, made maybe 10 or 15 years ago, from spare parts.*
Tom
Mojo
Established
A notice question.
Is there any K bearing on the curtain. If the original K curtain was replaced with a more modern curtain at a latter date, is the camera still a K bearing type camera?
Is there any K bearing on the curtain. If the original K curtain was replaced with a more modern curtain at a latter date, is the camera still a K bearing type camera?
cassel
Well-known
Remarkable coincedence! On eBay right now there are two different auctions for IIIcK cameras with sequential serial numbers. #390060 - nice shape with summitar $6700 and #390061- rough, body only AS-IS $1600. Wow😱 what are the odds!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360823311747?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290960326040?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360823311747?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290960326040?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Yan Silis
Member
I've just put in Ads here something possibly same as LeicaTom IIIC K without K or stamps on curtains for best offer.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
That my friend is a 1942 Leica IIIC Grey NON BALL BEARING camera, just a normal IIIC with RLM Grey paint, actually RARER than a IIIC K Grey in production numbers, but not as desirable as the "K" model.
This example isn't in the best of shape, lens could be original to the body, still is way over priced, like all dealer Grey cameras are.
Tom
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