Leica LTM Leica IIIC K - share info and questions

[LeicaTom]

Tom,

my comments were about military cameras issued BEFORE the first recorded Leica military shipments, ie August 1939.

For those, we simply don't know because the Leica military shipments were apparently not recorded before that time.


Stephen

I see, well the whole IIIB is a IIIC and screwy records went well into 1940/41, there's a few early 1941 issue Luftwaffe IIIC cameras and lenses that have NO military engravings at all and are 100% rear AirForce gear etc. (just FL. numbers, I recently found a Summitar lens that's listed as a Luftwaffe lens, but it has no engravings)

The Leica IIIC N-L (Leitz Odin Netherlands) records were a complete mess, nearly all the 1940 IIIC's were listed as IIIB's, but there is speculation that this may also have been done for export TAX purposes?

Pre 1939 German Military cameras and lenses are at best very very rare and hard to document.

I personally think finding out about these items are interesting, but I collect only non-military IIIC K cameras (or postwar US Army) while they are simple to verify and establish as 100% correct, not as much as the nightmare of the Nazi era Military stuff.

Tom

 

[Mr_Flibble]

That's strange. It was sold for $4989 on eBay on March 13!
You can do the math

Yeah, at 1300 GBP I figured it was too good to be true

 

[LeicaTom]

Yeah, at 1300 GBP I figured it was too good to be true

Anything that looks too good to be true always is........I saw a mint boxed LHSA MP3 Black paint set the other day for $5,300, the REAL auction sold for $12,500 a few days before, I reported the creeps

I know some people who bought Grey Leica's very cheap (I never have) ~ But, I do know of a guy who found a really clean all original EX+ 1942 Grey Normal Bearing IIIC with Red Curtain's for $12 in a thrift shop!!!!!! A US Army IIIC K Grey on Craigslist for $250 .......and a German family who almost threw away a Matching Numbers 1944 W.H. IIIC K Grey and 50 Elmar Eeeeep!

Tom

 

[littlefields]

Hi Tom,
Were you able to find out the delivery date/batch number of my Leica IIIc/Summitar? (see post on previous page). Is there some special mark on the lens or body that Leitz used that one can find to determine if the lens is original to the body? Thanks in advance for any info BTW..have shot a few rolls with this outfit...the results are really great.

 

[LeicaTom]

Hi Tom,
Were you able to find out the delivery date/batch number of my Leica IIIc/Summitar? (see post on previous page). Is there some special mark on the lens or body that Leitz used that one can find to determine if the lens is original to the body? Thanks in advance for any info BTW..have shot a few rolls with this outfit...the results are really great.

Check out your email please


Sadly it pretty well looks like the Leica IIIC K Grey market has dried all but up, (from evilbay and private estates) I knew the day was coming that fresh cameras no longer enter the sales scene as often anymore due to their original owners passing away and the majority of the surviving cameras already in unsellable collections - (my last Grey K I bought, the original owner's STILL alive, she's going to be 90 this year!) - and the cameras that are on the market (with dealers) are in only fair to poor condition at best and are demanding Museum Quality prices now.

The Westlicht auction house currently has one or two nice original IIIC K's and one or two that aren't so original, but I think this time it's the "wartime" accessories that are the STARS at their up coming auction............. not so much the cameras.

I can't wait to see how much that original 1943 MOOLY C K Grey motor will sell for (one from only 30 or 40 production K motors)......? I'll be sure to post the results here after the auction.

And even though it's not a IIIC K - this camera combo is well worth an extra look

A 1942 Leica IIIC Normal Bearing Grey Painted camera and original Grey painted MOOLY C motor (like one of 20/25 made *NOTE EVEN RARER THAN THE GREY K MOTOR* ) - this camera/motor combo will bring some interesting money, I can't wait to see............(I'm also holding on to my IIIC K/MOOLY C rig, which I might offer at the next auction - I guess which will be in Oct or Nov this year?)


Funny, when I saw this camera's serial number it looked very familiar, here's a rare camera worth mentioning while it used to be mine......... about two years ago

#361324 N-L (is still) the Oldest Known SURVIVING Leica IIIC N-L (July 1940), oddly? the new owner swapped out the original vulcanite shell (which also had the original Leitz Lug Rings) it had a small chip that could have been restored? - but, the overall Restoration of the camera, to include new Leitz Shutter Curtains has been done well and it should sell for about the same price or a little better than what I sold it for 2 years ago (with a Red Curtain parts camera) ......($1,500 to $2,000?)

Overall the prices of "wartime" STEPPER Leica IIIC's are on the rise again, as always with the best money going to the finer examples, which are getting harder and harder to find as the years go by doing these........

Here's a nice Luftwaffe IIIC K - though I don't personally like or collect the Nazi era cameras, this one has a nice overall condition and it's unique to see a camera offered with an original embossed Grey military leather case, such cases are hard to find....... (oh and btw this camera has a very rare RLM Grey painted Bakelite plastic lens cap, real kool cap!)

And quick, here's my favorite camera of the auction and the rarest of all the IIIC K's, a 1942 Satin Chrome IIIC K with Grey Painted Vulcanite and an era correct Summitar lens.

For more about the auction follow these links:

http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=215261&refererid=7132&_ssl=off&lang=3

The auction is on May 28th 2011 ~

I think I might bid on a lens or two, but no cameras this time around.

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

Westlicht Auction Results From Today

Westlicht Auction Results From Today

My old 1940 Leica IIIC N-L (Odin Netherlands) brought only 780 Euros (I sold it for more than that 2 years ago )

The 1942 Leica IIIC K Chrome brought 5.520 Euros (a nice item and my favorite camera of the auction, I hope to be adding one of these to my personal collection soon).

The 1942 Leica IIIC Grey with matching MOOLY C brought 21.600 Euros

A 1943 Luftwaffen Eigenturm IIIC K Grey brought 6.600 Euros

The 1945 Leica IIIC K/IIIFBDST Conversion that was once owned by General Keating US Army brought only 1.920 Euros

A 1943 W.H. Leica IIIC K Grey brought 5.040 Euros

Another 1944 W.H. Leica IIIC K brought 13.200 Euros

Pretty much the most important item at the auction concerning WW2 era equipment was this 1943 MOOLY C K Grey which brought 22.800 Euros

.....and 840Euros for a Grey baseplate

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[sabears]

Thank you Tom, Great Auction! And you have to add commission of 20% plus payment fees + shipping= about 25% on the price
Final price...
The 1942 Leica IIIC K Chrome Euro 5750
1943 Luftwaffen Eigenturm IIIC K Grey Euro 6875
1943 W.H. Leica IIIC K (no matching lens) Euro 5250
1944 W.H. Leica IIIC K + W.H. lens Euro 13750

Now the two MOOLY!!!
1942 Leica IIIC Grey with matching MOOLY C Euro 22.500
1943 MOOLY C K Grey Euro 23.750

Cheers

 

[LeicaTom]

Thank you Tom, Great Auction! And you have to add commission of 20% plus payment fees + shipping= about 25% on the price
Final price...
The 1942 Leica IIIC K Chrome Euro 5750
1943 Luftwaffen Eigenturm IIIC K Grey Euro 6875
1943 W.H. Leica IIIC K (no matching lens) Euro 5250
1944 W.H. Leica IIIC K + W.H. lens Euro 13750

Now the two MOOLY!!!
1942 Leica IIIC Grey with matching MOOLY C Euro 22.500
1943 MOOLY C K Grey Euro 23.750

Cheers

Mauro,

Did you buy anything this time??????

The only camera I was slightly interested in was General Keating's camera which sold for a very disappointing price, way less than even what I thought it was worth......

Those two MOOLY C Grey's were nice, I also liked that 42' Chrome IIIC K very much, one of my favorite cameras.

Tom

 

[sabears]

No, this time I passed. Sometimes it's good for me to see the gladiators in the arena having my hands free to take popcorn .
General Keating's camera was a bargain, there is a story behind!
I agree about the 42' Chrome IIIC K, very nice camera!
The market of good historic pieces is strong again, I see.
Mauro.
P.S.: there should be something hidden in the delivery of lot78 and lot82 , wartime 9cm. elmar and 13,5 cm.hektors, high price for these lenses, what do you think?

 

[LeicaTom]

No, this time I passed. Sometimes it's good for me to see the gladiators in the arena having my hands free to take popcorn .
General Keating's camera was a bargain, there is a story behind!
I agree about the 42' Chrome IIIC K, very nice camera!
The market of good historic pieces is strong again, I see.
Mauro.
P.S.: there should be something hidden in the delivery of lot78 and lot82 , wartime 9cm. elmar and 13,5 cm.hektors, high price for these lenses, what do you think?

Well, with the Hektor 135's and Elmar 90's the "wartime" versions are getting all but impossible to find now, they were neglected for years by collectors, now I think they (collector's) are trying to swipe up as many as possible, just like the "wartime" Summitar and Elmar 50's they too are all but gone from the market, overall "wartime" stuff now has become very very collectable and as much even rarer than before........and less and less near minty/minty stuff being found anymore

Tom

 

[RF_newbie]

Here is a very very very rare 1941 KM Hektor

And Tom, don't forget this little navy Hektor that got over 6k!

 

[LeicaTom]

And Tom, don't forget this little navy Hektor that got over 6k!

I guess should have held on to my KM Summitar afterall.........

You can stamp a Reichsadler on everything nowadays and as long as it says "Berlin" someone will buy it..........

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

I adjusted/updated the last auction prices.....

Tom

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Looks like I'm finally joining the IIIcK club

 

[LeicaTom]

Here's a 1945 Leica IIIC LOOPN (K) w/Leitz Elmar f3.5/50 from August 17th 1945, together with an original Seventh Army (US Army equipment booklet) from June 1945

I just sold this camera to Rick with an original era Leitz Summitar f2/50 just this past weekend

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[johannielscom]

Congrats Rick and Tom on that sale!

I have done business with both of these fine gentlemen and that fine bred camera could not have gone to a more loving and enthusiastic new owner, and could not have come from better stables!

Great to see that your IIIa+SCNOO will have a nice new pal to play with!


Now, if only I could run into a cheapish SCNOO for my IIIc...

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Thanks Johan,

Coincidentally, It'll also be my third "Stepper" body.

 

[johannielscom]

Thanks Johan,

Coincidentally, It'll also be my third "Stepper" body.

That explains why the IIIa never got homesick since it stayed with you, I guess!



Looking forward to see a shot of those triplets once the new camera arrives!

 

[Mr_Flibble]

With some historically accurate backgrounds, like Tom's manual

 

[Mr_Flibble]

It's here! It's here! Granted, with some unpleasant duties that had to be paid.

First impressions: Well it's not like it looks much different from my other two war-time IIIc's, But damn! That's the smoothest shutter wind and release I've ever felt on a Barnack body!
And the glass of the Summitar is in way better condition then my 1939 one.

Also, thanks for the extra never-ready case Tom!

Pictures tomorrow, when there is no imminent Tornado warning!