Leica in trouble?

[Pickett Wilson]

An interesting thread over at L Camera:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...89060-hessenpark-news-official-no-r10-no.html

 

[Pickett Wilson]

The thread is about more than the R. From what I read, they are basically saying that for the next couple of years, they will have the S1 at $30,000, the M8 at $5,000 and some expensive lenses to sell.

And I'm not sure why anyone would spend R&D on creating a digital that would use mechanical R lenses that aren't being made anymore.

 

[gdi]

Hopefully this will reduce the pressure on the R lenses, I want to see thse prices TANK! (Since I really need some!)

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Well, some work on FF digital bodies, some don't. Some even require the mirror to be shaved to work. I don't see that as a universal solution.

Fortuantely, they work fine on my SL and R4.

 

[johnastovall]

Well, some work on FF digital bodies, some don't. Some even require the mirror to be shaved to work. I don't see that as a universal solution.

Fortuantely, they work fine on my SL and R4.

Here's a list of what works and which require a mirror shave with which bodies.

I don't need a universal solution just one that works with my bodies.

 

[35mmdelux]

With the new series of Summiluxes (21, 24) and the .95 Noct, Leica is set to remain the apex of avail light photography.

The breakthru Leica has to make is a competent RF digital camera. This is doable.

Next Leica needs to ensure the profitability of each product line. Again, Leica has the glass, with a competent digital camera the Leica ship will right its course.

 

[splitimageview]

Stopped down works with adapted lenses but it's not a viable competitive option for Leica.

BTW, when has Leica *not* been in trouble?

 

[Pickett Wilson]

If Leica doesn't release a new product for a couple of years, they are toast.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

If Leica doesn't release a new product for a couple of years, they are toast.

.....mmmm.....and one guy here thinks they should start making M2's again! 🙄

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I'm guessing Dr. K finally got tired of burning through money and shut down R&D completely.

 

[dof]

I'm guessing Dr. K finally got tired of burning through money and shut down R&D completely.

I think it has more to do with them seeing the writing on the wall that even with the number of faithful R users there are, entering into the highly competitive "full-frame" DSLR market simply doesn't make sense for a company of their size.

No doubt the R&D is highly expensive - the burn rate in Solms for the past three years must be far greater than what their product line could possibly pull in. The market for DSLRs hit the saturation point in the past year and the global economic outlook has changed the fortunes of even the biggest players in this arena. Given all these factors, why would they continue down this road?

Personally, I thought it might have been a great SLR.

 

[lemalk]

It does seem like Leica is at a bit of a crossroads (again).

It looks like Panasonic's forthcoming Micro 4/3rd camera won't depend on any Leica-anointed glass. Leica also appears to be unhappy with the 4/3rd standard and sales of the Digilux 3.

Their only "product" since the M8 (2006!) has been made by Panasonic. And what they're interested in is smaller, more compact cameras.

To me, it doesn't appear Leica can appease the purists and innovate without the help of Panasonic. And that relationship, at this point, may only be a marriage of convenience. No more "co-development" as they claim happened with the Digilux 2 and LC1.

It sure doesn't look too good right about now.

But, if I want a ridiculously high-priced digital projector, I know where to turn 🙁

 

[Trius]

If Leica doesn't release a new product for a couple of years, they are toast.

I'd hate to agree with you 😉 , but I almost do. It occurs to me that Zeiss took the right path in the market -- make the great glass, especially in niches such as fast primes, leave the body development to others. Where's the money in a body? Leica apparently has not learned that there is no money there (now) unless you're smart (or lucky) enough to find/develop a niche that can command a premium. I have no clue how the S1 is doing, but outside of that, the only hope they have is glass. If they don't shed the R&D on bodies, that spend will eat them alive.

It appears they are trying to substitute alliances for in-house platform development, but I'm not sure the value proposition favours them in the eyes of potential partners. Only Panasonic seems to be viable, and are they really a high-end prosumer camera company? They're an electronics conglomerate, and their commitment to the type of user able to spend on Leica-quality primes is questionable, IMO. Zeiss has Sony and Cosina tied up, so Leica's only other options are Olympus (not a good fit, IMO, unless Olympus would simply buy Leica) and Nikon.

Just my musings. Doesn't matter to me, as my interest is only in film Ms and M mount lenses (from whomever, depending on my needs) and the m4/3 offerings for small digi.

 

[Bike Tourist]

Back to the original question, "Leica in trouble? "

I think Leica has always been more or less in trouble since the advent of the Nikon F1. In the decades since, they have reorganized, been purchased, relocated and generally been in flux. They have remained quite conservative in their engineering, yet also made some terrific marketing blunders. Through it all, they remained viable because the name essentially meant that they could charge rather exhorbitant prices for their wares.

I am as guilty as anyone for continuing to crave and buy their products based, in part, on performance and, in part, on my sentimental attachment to good things long past.

Now, with my D700, I realize that it has all the performance potential I will ever need. I will continue to lust after precision Leica equipment but I hope reason will prevail.

As to Leica's current condition, I always check with Erwin Puts' web site. He is probably one of those in a position to know and also in a postion to talk about it freely.

 

[aizan]

they should just follow mr. gandy's advice: make their lenses available in canon and nikon mounts.

good riddance to the r system. it was a total drag on the company.

 

[thrice]

I shoot primarily Leica-R glass (one voigtlander) on my 5D Mark II. I shaved the mirror (mine looks tidy and doesn't affect shooting in any way at any aperture) and can use every lens I want to. I mostly shoot landscape.

I've adapted my shooting style to stop down, but it isn't ideal if one wants to shoot street/candid/PJ/weddings because of the time factor. For landscapes the results are worth it for me... I was really hoping for a FF digital R10 though 🙁

I'm thinking they'll release lenses in competing (canon/nikon/pentax) mounts if given permission. The downside to this is the large R collection I already have and the likelihood that they'll offer an adapter for R owners - which likely can't stop the lens down for you.

19/2.8 v2 on 5D mk II

35/1.4 on 5D mk II

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I guess it depends on what you do with the lenses. Once you start shooting long lenses hand held, the differences are quickly erased. And IS is a real advantage in hand held shooting.

 

[parsec1]

Leica will sell only a few thousand R10s then out will come the 'Micky Mouse' editions ..usual rubbish = a snake skin version, a shark skin version, a 'Holocaust version' (God forbid) a 'Mafia' only version( make em an offer they couldn't refuse) maybe a 'Bugs Bunny version but a useable digital rangefinder I doubt Kaufman ,and his money means NOTHING to me , would ever consider it or understand the need for it.

 

[mooge]

thrice...

uh, holy crap. that is awesome.

 

[Keith]

I thought their R&D department was concentrating on paint development for a while .... could be a sideline for them ... painting military gear camouflage white for the polar regimes and olive green for the others!