Leica M: 3 or 4?

[Richard G]

The M2 top plate as we know it, was the original design for the new M Leica in the early 1950's, made by Herbert JANKE, the chief of the design department at Leitz in those years. However, the bosses at Leitz did not like it, it wasn't looking "technical" enough. So Janke made another design, the one that we know now as the M3 top plate.

Only later, in 1958, the original design was used for the then new M2. In the end it became the standard design for the top plate of many M-cameras, in fact all but the M5.

True story.

Erik.

Absolutely fascinating.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

I ask the question since the last time I owned an M3 was in 1977. I was simply wondering if there is something I missed that my memory (now 43 years later and not quite as good at 67 as it used to be) did not remember.

Nothing is perfect out in the world, even Leica. Each model is incredibly familiar to one another but with subtle differences which causes endless debate. As I stated early on, my favorite is the M2 primarily for its viewfinder. Guess I will explore having a rapid loading system installed or finding one in Hong Kong or Tokyo in a few months.

A good Leica repair tech can upgrade any M2 with M4 style film loading as long as he/she has the parts. IMHO it's well worth it.

However, because the M3 chassis does not have the film reset mechanism (engaged when the bottom plate is removed) present on M4 and later Leica Ms, this upgrade cannot be easily accomplished. Therefore, if M4 style loading is a deal-breaker, then an M3 would not be a viable option.

I'm not sure this has been discussed already, but there it is. ...

 

[Richard G]

I love the rapid loading of my M6. But the M2 spool is really not a big deal.

 

[Vincent.G]

The M2 spool makes film loading very secure but at the expense of ease of reloading compared to the later M bodies. To overcome this, have a couple of spare spools (with the film leader pre-threaded into the spare spool) to slightly speed things up a bit.

 

[Derek Leath]

I have two M3's and one M4. There really isn't much difference, frame lines and counter.
Both cameras feel the same and have the same insides. My m3's are DS and the M4 is SS.

 

[splitimageview]

A good Leica repair tech can upgrade any M2 with M4 style film loading as long as he/she has the parts. IMHO it's well worth it.

However, because the M3 chassis does not have the film reset mechanism (engaged when the bottom plate is removed) present on M4 and later Leica Ms, this upgrade cannot be easily accomplished. Therefore, if M4 style loading is a deal-breaker, then an M3 would not be a viable option.

I'm not sure this has been discussed already, but there it is. ...

As mentioned earlier, the removable tulip-style takeup spool that DAG may still sell, makes this quite an easy mod on an M2. Just remove the original takeup spool and insert the tulip spool in its place. This essentially turns M2 loading into M4 loading, and is easily reversible.

 

[Rob-F]

I love the rapid loading of my M6. But the M2 spool is really not a big deal.

In fact, I can load my M2 just as fast as my M6/M7/MP. Since the spool goes into the camera with the film leader inserted, the film is seated correctly to engage the sprocket, without fussing over it (as I do with the later models). I like that!

 

[splitimageview]

I’ll take Hexar RF, CLE or Zeiss Ikon film loading over any bottom loader... 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

The outfit to modify the M2's take-up spool was called the "Quick Load" and I think it fitted the M3 etc but can't be 100% certain.


I've a scan of the instructions and the sticky label for the base plate, if anyone is interested.


Regards, David

 

[Huss]

I’ll take Hexar RF, CLE or Zeiss Ikon film loading over any bottom loader... 🙂

What about a Nikon S2/3/P?

One thing that I really like about Leica’s bottom loading (steady on chaps!) is that I don’t have to deal with foam light seals going goopy, crumbling bits into the camera and having to replace them. I’ve replaced so many...
Yes they last a long time once replaced but it is just a nice thing that it doesn’t need them.

I do also prefer the old loading of my M3s over my M4-2/5/7/A just because while it may take a little longer I have never had a mis-load. And if you care about speed just carry a spare spool preloaded.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The outfit to modify the M2's take-up spool was called the "Quick Load" and I think it fitted the M3 etc but can't be 100% certain.

I've a scan of the instructions and the sticky label for the base plate, if anyone is interested.

Regards, David

Yes, it also fits the M3, but forget "Quick".

What is wonderful about the original loading procedure of the M3 and M2 is that you can be sure for 99,99% that nothing goes wrong.

The "quick loading" system of the M4, M5 and M6 is indeed slightly faster, but from time to time it goes wrong and you have to start all over again, so you are always a bit nervous when loading the camera. Not good.

Erik.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

The "quick loading" system of the M4, M5 and M6 is indeed slightly faster, but from time to time it goes wrong and you have to start all over again, so you are always a bit nervous when loading the camera. Not good.

Erik.

Exactly. I have been in trouble with M4-2 several times. It will take two frames and then stop advancing. Due to slightly wrong hand made film cut.

The whole dispute is just laughable from photog perspective. It takes about twenty seconds longer (or less) with M3, M2 comparing to any "fast" loading.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Exactly. I have been in trouble with M4-2 several times. It will take two frames and then stop advancing. Due to slightly wrong hand made film cut.

The whole dispute is just laughable from photog perspective. It takes about twenty seconds longer (or less) with M3, M2 comparing to any "fast" loading.

Ditto with my M5, and seconded on the second. I've never lost a photo with an M2 or M3 because of loading. I have with a Barnack, but that's on another level of silly.

 

[Livesteamer]

As others have said, the Quick Load system takes care. Make sure the sprockets engage the film, get the leader into the tulip correctly, close it up and gently tension the rewind knob, wind on slowly and gently and watch the rewind knob to make sure film is moving properly. The M3 system in not slower and much more secure. Very embarrassing to run forty exposures thru your M6 and then find the film was not winding on. You only have to do this once to become very careful with the "Quick Load" system. Joe

 

[steveyork]

Over the last 25 years, I've owned an M6, MP, M7, M4, M5, M3, in that order, but now only have a couple M2s. The M3 is wonderful for its' increased magnification, something you'll have to look through to fully appreciate. They do have the infamous "black out" issue, something that happened to my sister, and that can sometimes be repaired by Ye (and others), plus essentially they are limited to the 50mm focal length. It would be a nice compliment to your M2, the latter camera being far more versatile. Like a lot of things inn 'Leica Land,' you just need to get, use, and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, sell it and move on. I p[refer the old loading of the M2/M3, so the M4 really wouldn't do anything for me.

 

[Greg Maslak]

I love the Quick Load of the 4s and friends. In fact, the less you fuss with it the better it works. Just follow the instructions in the old red manuals and it's virtually foolproof. Keep the back closed, pull the leader along, set the cannister in halfway, push in down with your palm, replace the bottom plate and done. One advance and she's loaded. It's meant to be "quick" and it is. If you start fiddling around trying to make sure the film is in place correctly, you prevent the bottom plate from setting the film the way it was designed to do. It's really quite lovely.

 

[splitimageview]

What about a Nikon S2/3/P?

Yes! Or CL.

 

[Huss]

I love the Quick Load of the 4s and friends. In fact, the less you fuss with it the better it works. Just follow the instructions in the old red manuals and it's virtually foolproof. Keep the back closed, pull the leader along, set the cannister in halfway, push in down with your palm, replace the bottom plate and done. One advance and she's loaded. It's meant to be "quick" and it is. If you start fiddling around trying to make sure the film is in place correctly, you prevent the bottom plate from setting the film the way it was designed to do. It's really quite lovely.

I agree w u that the less you mess w it the better it works. But I open the back flap to guide the film over the sprockets otherwise it can hang up crooked and not load properly. Why else would Leica provide that back flap?
I make sure the film canister has the slack inside it removed before I load it, so I can immediately see the film rewind knob rotate showing the film is being advanced correctly.

 

[David Hughes]

Watching the rewind knob turning is so basic and simple and foolproof that I wonder why so many don't do it. Even easier on the old CL as you can hold it underneath and feel it turning.


Regards, David

 

[PRJ]

I think the answer is to buy a camera based on aesthetics then you can have anything you want done to it. If you truly want only one camera then that is the way to go. Get it customized. Leicas are great for that as we all know. Won't be cheap, but it will be perfect for you.

I've had an M3 for many years. I don't use it much but I never found loading it to be much of an issue. Never even noticed it really. My other most used rangefinder is a Hexar RF. That is easy to load, but occasionally I misload it and have to load it again. No big deal. I don't think I've ever misloaded the Leica. And like David stated right above me, just check. Ain't rocket science. If it ain't spinning it ain't working.