Leica M Digitals without LCD

russelljtdyer

russelljtdyer

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I'm thinking of buying a Leica M digital rangefinder camera without an LCD screen. For a long time I wanted to get Leica M-D, but didn't have the money when it was in production. By the time I had the money, I couldn't find one for sale. I bought a Leica M6 film camera instead. I haven't used that very much, though. Now I'm thinking of selling it and trying again for a LCD-free digital M camera.

I see that the M-11D may be released in September, but I imagine it will be pricey. I'm thinking it'll cost around $9000. What's the latest thinking on the Leica M-10D? I see them selling for about $7000 still. If I sell my M-6 for a good price, I think I can pull together the cash for it, for an M-10D. Are we disappointed in them, or are they as good as other Leica M cameras with similar specs -- and price? Please let me know your thoughts on this, what you've experienced or heard or assessed.

Thanks,
Russell
 
You can just shut off the LCD screen, you know. This could be a very workable solution unless you have really strong opinions about LCD screens.
 
Speaking as a former film and digital M camera owner, I'd advise keeping your expectations realistic: Despite the lofty prices, the digital cameras in particular are regarded by Leica as consumer electronics, in-warranty service isn't quick (certainly nothing like Apple), and non-warranty service may be unavailable after X years have elapsed. And be aware that with the LCD-less models, a mobile device w/Leica app may be needed to change certain settings. And how long they will continue to update the app and maintain support for your particular model, is unknown.

IMO, the best way to really enjoy the digital Leicas is to use them a lot, and if you get ~5-7 years of service out of them, and can still get $2500 back in resale, you've done good. I would certainly not regard these as "forever" cameras, any more than I would with any other brands.
 
shawn said:
Or just got a regular model and put it in a Luigi case with a rear cover over the LCD.
Click to expand...

I do find the LCD useful for the menus and checking the battery level & etc. I don't chimp so with my Luigi case the back stays snapped closed 99% of the time. Edit - an M 240.
 
JeffS7444 said:
I would certainly not regard these as "forever" cameras, any more than I would with any other brands.
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But where was that in the OP´s criteria?

I say go for it. These models actually decrease in value even slower than the normal models. And are probably the closest thing to a film camera in digital. It isn't for me, but I understand the appeal.
 
Here you go: Leica M-D (Typ 262) Body - boxed, excellent condition #10945 | eBay

Speaking as someone who owned an M-D and was an early adopter, I do regret having sold it. It’s a great camera and it rivalled black and white images I could get out of my Monochrom 246. Having said that, I think the prices that are being asked for them are a bit much. Probably one of the few digital Leicas that has held its value, and if you want the closest thing to the ‘film experience’ in a digital camera, I think the M-D is it. And to me it’s not the same as just turning the screen off on other digital M’s.

If I had a choice, I’d take the M-D 262 over the M-10D. That ISO dial on the back is great and it is - as Leica describes it - as close to “das Wesentliche” as you can get.
 
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JohnGellings said:
Come on now... isn't it obvious he doesn't want the screen?
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The post closes with, "Please let me know your thoughts on this, what you've experienced or heard or assessed." I did. My response, "You can just shut off the LCD screen, you know. This could be a very workable solution unless you have really strong opinions about LCD screens." As the post opens with, "I'm thinking of buying a Leica M digital rangefinder camera without an LCD screen." my answer is reasonable. My answer. There may be more than one solution. May be.

If you use a screen you will find it wonderful, it has menus of camera settings. Imagine that! And film pretend time can be, as I suggested, achieved by just shutting off the LCD screen. And then you have the best of both worlds. It is so simple, isn't it? And when you want to stop pretending you have a film camera just turn on the LCD screen, playtime over.

How are things in Santiago?
 
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Thanks to everyone for your comments. I think having no LCD is my preference. It forces me to stay within a tight zone of controls. Plus, it's kind of cool when people ask where is the screen.

Jeff's point, however, about support for the configuration application is concerning and familiar to me. I bought a suitcase from Rimowa about eight years ago that has a digital ink screen. They stop making suitcases with those screens a few years ago and I no longer have the app. to change the display. One day I may want to change it and won't be able. Of course, Leica is good about absurdly long-term support for their products.

I've tried just turning off the LCD screen on other cameras, but it's too easy to turn it back on and get distracted. Along those lines, I do like Shawn's suggestion to buy a recent digital M with an LCD and wrap it in a film camera case. After all, for many digital models, the housing has the same dimensions as the film ones.

I'm about convinced of all of this, then I looked on a local dealer's site. I checked the site last night for a LCD-free one, but checked this morning to see what he has available in LCD ones. I discovered he listed this morning an M-10D for about €5000 and it's already sold. I'm frustrated that it's gone already, but glad it sold because I would be scrambling to get to the store to buy it although it would drain my bank accounts. That feeling of panic about missing the change to buy one at such a good price indicates that although the logic, the mature thinking is coming together, the emotions, the kid in me still wants an M-D type model.

I think the price for these LCD-less models remain so high because of the limited production. For instance, I read that they produced only 1500 of M-10Ds. I'd imagine there are more than 1500 people like me in the world, in addition to collectors who like the novelty of these cameras in their collections.

Putting this all together, paying 5000 to 7500 euros or dollars for a six-year-old 24mp digital camera may be foolish, especially when I can buy a newer LCD model with a nice leather case for half the price. I just need to calm the boy in me.
 
boojum said:
The post closes with, "Please let me know your thoughts on this, what you've experienced or heard or assessed." I did. My response, "You can just shut off the LCD screen, you know. This could be a very workable solution unless you have really strong opinions about LCD screens." As the post opens with, "I'm thinking of buying a Leica M digital rangefinder camera without an LCD screen." my answer is reasonable. My answer. There may be more than one solution. May be.

If you use a screen you will find it wonderful, it has menus of camera settings. Imagine that! And film pretend time can be, as I suggested, achieved by just shutting off the LCD screen. And then you have the best of both worlds. It is so simple, isn't it? And when you want to stop pretending you have a film camera just turn on the LCD screen, playtime over.

How are things in Santiago?
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I understand, but it is the cookie cutter response to anyone who wants this style of camera. I’m not trying to be combative but it’s the typical response. Reason doesn’t come into play when you want a screen less digital. Leica makes them for a reason.

Things are good over here, though we are getting an unusual amount of rain lately. And you?
 
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This afternoon, I bought an M-11P from the Leica store in Milan and will order a half-case from Mr. Zhao. The Leica store gave me a fair price for my M6 -- just a few hundred less than I paid for it four years ago (i.e., it cost me about €125 a year to own it). Plus, I used my U.S. passport to get the sales tax back. The trade-in and tax refund reduced the price by about € 3250. As for the remainder, I only had to transfer funds to pay off my credit card twice. Fortunately, I had a fabulous wife who didn't abuse me afterwards. Instead, we went to lunch to celebrate and to drink some wine for me to recover from the stress of it all.

I spent more than I had hoped, but it's a spectacular camera with many good features. Plus, it's on the high end of the digital spectrum at 60 mega-pixels. It'll be a while before it becomes obsolete.

I didn't mention in my original post, but I'm looking to get excited about photography again -- I had gotten away from it. I was thinking a low clutter camera -- hence one without an LCD -- would be good. But if I turn off the LCD and block it with a leather case, I probably won't be distracted by it. I can control everything with a few controls on top and on the lens, primarily with manual knobs and what not. Also, the high pixel count is going to be interesting.

This weekend my wife and I go to France for eight days: three days in Paris and five days by car in the Loire valley. With this spiffy new camera, my former-model lovely wife, and the beautiful backdrop of France, I have no excuse not to take plenty of photos. Wish me luck in my goal.

-Russell
 
Well, I guess Ol´ boojum was right after all. ;) I accept my defeat.

Congratulation on the new camera... I do not think you can go wrong with that choice.
 
Goodluck and watch the camera. I would never leave it from the neck strap on my neck if not inside my room.

60MP is just a memory, storage killer, IMO.

LCD less is awesome, as long as you accepting terrible digital M exposure metering.
If it is dark scene, but 5% is bright sky - it will expose to it. It also might acting up with exposures via UWA lens.

Blocking LCD by the case, is the case of ugly Betty.
 
russelljtdyer said:
I spent more than I had hoped, but it's a spectacular camera with many good features. Plus, it's on the high end of the digital spectrum at 60 mega-pixels. It'll be a while before it becomes obsolete.
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Good luck, and hope you have fun!

I regard my 60 megapixel beast as the best camera that I've owned to date. But to squeeze out all of the goodness out of every one of those pixels, I've needed to improve my technique: Holding the camera extra-steady, and deciding exactly where the focal point should be. But worth it? Oh heck yeah.
 
russelljtdyer said:
This afternoon, I bought an M-11P from the Leica store in Milan and will order a half-case from Mr. Zhao. The Leica store gave me a fair price for my M6 -- just a few hundred less than I paid for it four years ago (i.e., it cost me about €125 a year to own it). Plus, I used my U.S. passport to get the sales tax back. The trade-in and tax refund reduced the price by about € 3250. As for the remainder, I only had to transfer funds to pay off my credit card twice. Fortunately, I had a fabulous wife who didn't abuse me afterwards. Instead, we went to lunch to celebrate and to drink some wine for me to recover from the stress of it all.

I spent more than I had hoped, but it's a spectacular camera with many good features. Plus, it's on the high end of the digital spectrum at 60 mega-pixels. It'll be a while before it becomes obsolete.

I didn't mention in my original post, but I'm looking to get excited about photography again -- I had gotten away from it. I was thinking a low clutter camera -- hence one without an LCD -- would be good. But if I turn off the LCD and block it with a leather case, I probably won't be distracted by it. I can control everything with a few controls on top and on the lens, primarily with manual knobs and what not. Also, the high pixel count is going to be interesting.

This weekend my wife and I go to France for eight days: three days in Paris and five days by car in the Loire valley. With this spiffy new camera, my former-model lovely wife, and the beautiful backdrop of France, I have no excuse not to take plenty of photos. Wish me luck in my goal.

-Russell
Click to expand...
We could have a whole other thread about how important it is to have a sympathetic and supportive spouse who understands our passion for photography (and the accompanying expense). You're very fortunate! I am as well, and I count that as one of the major blessings of our 18 years together.
 
russelljtdyer said:
I didn't mention in my original post, but I'm looking to get excited about photography again -- I had gotten away from it.
Click to expand...
Good luck with your journey back into the world of lights, colour and shadows. I personally was a bit at loss with photography for few years as well. I shot a lot, for work. But doing anything personal started to seem like a chore. For me the cure was original leica monochrom. Now I'm pumped up, filled with ideas and drive to do it. Good luck with your journey. Oh I might have M11 bug also to scratch at some point, maybe if I would sell my Panasonic cameras and L-mount lenses...
 
Why don’t you use your M6? Is it just the fact, that it is film? I think a screen less digi Leica is very similar in use so the experience is comparable.
 
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