Miles.
Beamsplitter
Hi all,
My much loved M10 took a tumble while I was changing out straps a few months ago and I just recently got the repair estimate back from Leica NJ, which more or less matches the value of the camera. So... I'm in the market for a "new" digital M and am deciding between another M10 or upgrading to a used M11. At the time of writing there is about a $2,000 USD delta between them in the used market. I'm not really interested in any of the variants, just the base models.
For my uses, as a hobbyist who mostly only takes bad photos, here are what I consider to be the benefits of upgrading to an M11:
1. Ability to use the much-improved Visoflex 2 for when I'm shooting a tele.
2. Improved battery life
Why I think I should stick with an M10
1. I'm not sure my 2020 M1 MacBook Air could handle the 60mp files of an M11
2. Other than the sticky ISO dial issue early on, it's been a dead reliable camera
For those who upgraded, how's it going? Are the M11 glitches still happening often in 2025?
Thanks all for your insight.
My much loved M10 took a tumble while I was changing out straps a few months ago and I just recently got the repair estimate back from Leica NJ, which more or less matches the value of the camera. So... I'm in the market for a "new" digital M and am deciding between another M10 or upgrading to a used M11. At the time of writing there is about a $2,000 USD delta between them in the used market. I'm not really interested in any of the variants, just the base models.
For my uses, as a hobbyist who mostly only takes bad photos, here are what I consider to be the benefits of upgrading to an M11:
1. Ability to use the much-improved Visoflex 2 for when I'm shooting a tele.
2. Improved battery life
Why I think I should stick with an M10
1. I'm not sure my 2020 M1 MacBook Air could handle the 60mp files of an M11
2. Other than the sticky ISO dial issue early on, it's been a dead reliable camera
For those who upgraded, how's it going? Are the M11 glitches still happening often in 2025?
Thanks all for your insight.
ouch! Sorry you're having to make this choice. 😥
Freakscene
Obscure member
Owners: M10R vs M11 - Pros and Cons
The M11 is a very different camera than the more traditionally designed M10R. The M11 different design approach may be bothersome to some while others love the changes. Putting cost aside, what are the owner's take on the two cameras? Is the M11 worth the change, or is it a bridge going in...
www.rangefinderforum.com
My replacement M11 Monochrom does not lock up at all.
Pros and cons here
Owners: M10R vs M11 - Pros and Cons
The M11 is a very different camera than the more traditionally designed M10R. The M11 different design approach may be bothersome to some while others love the changes. Putting cost aside, what are the owner's take on the two cameras? Is the M11 worth the change, or is it a bridge going in...
www.rangefinderforum.com
If you move to an M11 I will buy your BP-SCL5 batteries.
For the 60MPixel files: I thought you could set the M11 to bin pixels. I've seen stated you can record 60MPixel, 36MPixel, and 18MPixel images.
I like 18MPixels...
I like 18MPixels...
JeffS7444
Well-known
If your computer is equipped with at least 16 GB of RAM, I think you'll be okay with 60 megapixel images. And your wrecked camera may still have considerable resale value in it's as-is condition. Main "problem" with the higher resolution sensors is that kinda-sorta focus technique, mild camera shake, and less than sterling optics can be very noticeable once you become familiar with what the sensor is truly capable of.
Freakscene
Obscure member
Yes, you can. You can also always downsize everything in your processing app before you store it. But I like to keep what comes out of the camera with as little change as possible. The 18mp files have positives but also in the M11 (not Monochrom) the pixel binning does some odd things to the colour.
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yossi
Well-known
Some people complain about the M11's Live View Metering:
"While the screen is not active with this new metering mode, the sensor is always exposed and on. When you take an exposure, the shutter now has to close, expose and then re-open. The whole process feels laggy with an uninspiring shutter sound".
You may want to take this into consideration. May or may not be important to you.
Same as any other live view camera with a mechanical shutter right?
Use the electronic shutter option instead?
Use the electronic shutter option instead?
Tuna
Fotoğrafçı
I haven’t owned or used an M10 but have heard many good reviews. I have owned an M11 for a little over two years and am very satisfied with it.
I have always shot at 60MP. I also have a Mac from 2020. It is a pro version and I upgraded the graphics card and, I think, the base memory too in anticipation of eventually using large file sizes.
I occasionally use a version 2 35mm Summicron on it and get very nice results.
I have not had problems with “camera shake due to file size” issues - I regularly shoot at around 1/250 which helps but have shot at 1/30 or 1/60 regularly when needed and don’t have a problem - basic camera shooting technique will do (breathing, arms against torso, etc.).
I have not had any freezing problems. I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I also don’t constantly update the software - I think I only updated it once so am about two years behind - I don’t see the need to mess with it. It’s a camera and does the job I expect from a camera. I don’t need to “fix” it or add GPS, etc. On the other hand, there are some M11’s out there that have consistent freezing issues and are probably most of those being sold in the aftermarket…
There have been some users who insist the colors OOC have a magenta cast. Never been an issue for me. I occasionally ADD a bit of magenta to achieve a more film like appearance.
The only nitpick I have with the camera is the time it takes to come “alive” when I tap the shutter button to bring it out of sleep - I have missed some shots due to this. But I have also adjusted my style of street shooting awareness to somewhat compensate for this.
So, I would recommend the camera. However, personally, if it is a digital camera and is currently still in production, I would only buy a new one. Obviously that is quite a bit more expensive than a used one…
I have always shot at 60MP. I also have a Mac from 2020. It is a pro version and I upgraded the graphics card and, I think, the base memory too in anticipation of eventually using large file sizes.
I occasionally use a version 2 35mm Summicron on it and get very nice results.
I have not had problems with “camera shake due to file size” issues - I regularly shoot at around 1/250 which helps but have shot at 1/30 or 1/60 regularly when needed and don’t have a problem - basic camera shooting technique will do (breathing, arms against torso, etc.).
I have not had any freezing problems. I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I also don’t constantly update the software - I think I only updated it once so am about two years behind - I don’t see the need to mess with it. It’s a camera and does the job I expect from a camera. I don’t need to “fix” it or add GPS, etc. On the other hand, there are some M11’s out there that have consistent freezing issues and are probably most of those being sold in the aftermarket…
There have been some users who insist the colors OOC have a magenta cast. Never been an issue for me. I occasionally ADD a bit of magenta to achieve a more film like appearance.
The only nitpick I have with the camera is the time it takes to come “alive” when I tap the shutter button to bring it out of sleep - I have missed some shots due to this. But I have also adjusted my style of street shooting awareness to somewhat compensate for this.
So, I would recommend the camera. However, personally, if it is a digital camera and is currently still in production, I would only buy a new one. Obviously that is quite a bit more expensive than a used one…
yossi
Well-known
Yes, but very different from M10.
How does the M10 do it differently?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I wouldn't worry about the Apple M1 being able to handle 60Mpixel files. I've been processing 40 and 50 Mpixel files on my 2018 Mac mini Intel system until a month or so ago, and while not particularly quick, it worked just fine.
I think the M11 "all new technology" teething difficulties are getting under control now based on what I hear from the various Leica forums and users I trust who've been using them. I've got the two M10s (M10-R and M10 Mono) and no plans to change for some time yet, but if one of mine became too expensively damaged to be worth repairing, I'd go with an M11 now. Presuming that I could afford it, of course.
I've seen many debates about the M11 vs M10 in use, and I think some people just like one and other people just like the other. They are, of course, both very good cameras, and neither is perfect. So just make a decision, pay your money, and learn to enjoy—and make fine photos with—whichever you chose.
(If I were going to buy an M11 right now, I'd pick the M11-D for sure ... I like the LCD-less approach, and I think the color camera benefits from the additional resolution much more than the mono camera.)
G
I think the M11 "all new technology" teething difficulties are getting under control now based on what I hear from the various Leica forums and users I trust who've been using them. I've got the two M10s (M10-R and M10 Mono) and no plans to change for some time yet, but if one of mine became too expensively damaged to be worth repairing, I'd go with an M11 now. Presuming that I could afford it, of course.
I've seen many debates about the M11 vs M10 in use, and I think some people just like one and other people just like the other. They are, of course, both very good cameras, and neither is perfect. So just make a decision, pay your money, and learn to enjoy—and make fine photos with—whichever you chose.
(If I were going to buy an M11 right now, I'd pick the M11-D for sure ... I like the LCD-less approach, and I think the color camera benefits from the additional resolution much more than the mono camera.)
G
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
I hate to be "that one" but have you considered a Nikon Z?
Or, that said, if I were in your shoes and had the finances to stick with Leica, I'd look for either a M10 Monochrom and M10-R, in that order. I can not imagine ever getting a M11 even for free but that's just me. Your mileage will vary.
Or, that said, if I were in your shoes and had the finances to stick with Leica, I'd look for either a M10 Monochrom and M10-R, in that order. I can not imagine ever getting a M11 even for free but that's just me. Your mileage will vary.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Nikon's Z cameras are quite good, but if, like me, you have a complete selection of Leica M-mount lenses and accessories already on the shelf, a Nikon Z is simply not an option ... unless you really enjoy selling everything and repurchasing a whole different set of lenses and accessories.
Yeah, yeah: you can use the M lenses on your Nikon Z. But having done that sort of thing for 25 years, I'll tell you from my direct experience: you'll never get the best that the Nikon Z system can offer if that's all you do with it for lenses. That same kit of M-mount lenses that I have has been used on micro-FourThirds, APS-C, and Sony A7 FF mirrorless cameras ... they neither perform the same nor produce the same 'magic' they do on the Leica M bodies they were designed for. This is, of course, particularly true of digital bodies because, in the last analysis, all a film body has to do is allow the lens to be held in the right place so that the user can accurately set a distance and exposure setting, and frame the photo.
BTAIM ... I'm actually quite curious about the M11-D. I've been reading up on it, would like to try one. I had the M-D 262 some years back; sold it to fund something else, and it's one of the few cameras I've owned that I regret selling.
G
mapgraphs
Established
I haven't been using M/LTM glass on a Nikon Z for 25 years but I have been using M/LTM glass interchangeably on a Z7 and M-240 for over six years. All I can say is that if the M-240 tanked, I wouldn't miss the output compared to what I can get with M/LTM glass and the Z7's expeed processing. Can't speak to other Z models but the 7 is a well kept secret.
(As an aside, at least from what I've found, there's a lot of less than well centered M/LTM glass out there.)
If the M10 worked for you before, I would say replace the M10 with another M10. That's what I would do with my M-240.
(As an aside, at least from what I've found, there's a lot of less than well centered M/LTM glass out there.)
If the M10 worked for you before, I would say replace the M10 with another M10. That's what I would do with my M-240.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I never had any issue with my M10-P. None whatsoever.
When I first got the M11-P, I discovered it is very picky about SD cards - specifically it hated PNY cards (which produced banding and dead files). I switched to Lexar cards, which it likes just fine. Otherwise, my M11-P is twitchy at times. It occasionally captures an image upside-down, and just as occasionally locks up (which requires me to remove and reset the battery). Both issues were supposed to be fixed with the last firmware update, but were not. Not a big deal, but it's annoying when it happens.
Based on the deal I got on my M11-P, if I could go back, I would still have bought it, but I think I would have been just as happy with an M10 Monochrom, which was what I originally sought after. But they had become (and are) scarce.
Ultimately, I believe the M10 is a more reliable camera overall.
When I first got the M11-P, I discovered it is very picky about SD cards - specifically it hated PNY cards (which produced banding and dead files). I switched to Lexar cards, which it likes just fine. Otherwise, my M11-P is twitchy at times. It occasionally captures an image upside-down, and just as occasionally locks up (which requires me to remove and reset the battery). Both issues were supposed to be fixed with the last firmware update, but were not. Not a big deal, but it's annoying when it happens.
Based on the deal I got on my M11-P, if I could go back, I would still have bought it, but I think I would have been just as happy with an M10 Monochrom, which was what I originally sought after. But they had become (and are) scarce.
Ultimately, I believe the M10 is a more reliable camera overall.
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boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
This caught my attention as I have the Q3 43 which offers the same image manipulation. I am 1) curious about the statement and how widespread this anomaly is and 2) does it appear in the Q3? I have posted a question on this in the Q3 thread but will chase information wherever I can find it. Thanks.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'd like to see some examples of the pixel binning doing odd things to color. I don't have any camera with this 'triple resolution' capability, so if someone could do some example shots that demonstrate it, I'd be much obliged.
(Note that I don't disbelieve the statement at all ... Any complex transformation such as pixel binning can and often does change the data in some way. I just would like to see what is going on.
)thx,
G
Freakscene
Obscure member
The difference is when shooting not in live view. The M10 is quite fast when focusing with the rangefinder. With the M11, it meters off the sensor, but when you shoot the shutter closes and then opens again to take the exposure. The camera is notably slower.
All my colour M11 images are work images, so I can’t share them, and I don’t have an M11 anymore - it was a loan camera. Overall I found the colour straight out of the camera better on the M10-R than the M11.I'd like to see some examples of the pixel binning doing odd things to color. I don't have any camera with this 'triple resolution' capability, so if someone could do some example shots that demonstrate it, I'd be much obliged.
(Note that I don't disbelieve the statement at all ... Any complex transformation such as pixel binning can and often does change the data in some way. I just would like to see what is going on.
thx,
G
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yossi
Well-known
Yes, slower! This would be a deal-breaker to some, like me.