Mister E
Well-known
The later models are all aluminum. I know my M2 and M4 both have aluminum back doors.
normclarke
normclarke
H i,
With regard to the back plate it is definately not steel in my 2 bodies, I have just tried them with a magnet to confirm this.
Best,
normclarke.
With regard to the back plate it is definately not steel in my 2 bodies, I have just tried them with a magnet to confirm this.
Best,
normclarke.
chris7521
Well-known
Paint does not stick to brass as easy as other metals, period. Steel is simple, aluminum is simple with it etched prior to painting. Many...have tried to get it to stick to brass including myself with careful prep and decreasing. If you never had to handle it it would look fantastic. Unfortunately that's not the case with cameras.
I don't believe the black paint Leica's were nickle plated. I do think it was a series of acid baths to etch the brass which etching primer doesn't do. I think they used hydrochloric acid or similar as part of the process. Aluminum, like brass, oxidizes quickly and paint will not stay on without etching. I think it all comes down to etching the brass enough to remove oxidation and to give the paint something to stick to.
Of course these are my own ideas but I don't think it was some incredibly hard procedure. It's just one I and others haven't done. Until somebody figures it out, You are going to be less that happy with your paint job unless you plan to let it sit on the shelf.
I don't believe the black paint Leica's were nickle plated. I do think it was a series of acid baths to etch the brass which etching primer doesn't do. I think they used hydrochloric acid or similar as part of the process. Aluminum, like brass, oxidizes quickly and paint will not stay on without etching. I think it all comes down to etching the brass enough to remove oxidation and to give the paint something to stick to.
Of course these are my own ideas but I don't think it was some incredibly hard procedure. It's just one I and others haven't done. Until somebody figures it out, You are going to be less that happy with your paint job unless you plan to let it sit on the shelf.
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250swb
Well-known
A Google search for satin black stove enamel brings up so many candidates and alternatives that I'm not even going to bother picking one out. Have a go. You may even find the local paint factors (not B&Q for instance) have stove enamel (they did in Sheffield last time I asked), and all you then need is the oven (but don't cure it just before cooking Sunday lunch). Hammerite do a satin finish spray, the list is endless for reasonable alternatives.
To use the alternatives on brass you can get black etch primer in aerosol (again do a Google search) and after a coat of that any finish coat will have the best chance of sticking, and as it wears on the edges will not show up as a different coloured undercoat. Obviously etch primer will not work on chrome, so you could ask the local platers, or trophy shop, or jewellery repairer if they can strip the plating for you.
Steve
To use the alternatives on brass you can get black etch primer in aerosol (again do a Google search) and after a coat of that any finish coat will have the best chance of sticking, and as it wears on the edges will not show up as a different coloured undercoat. Obviously etch primer will not work on chrome, so you could ask the local platers, or trophy shop, or jewellery repairer if they can strip the plating for you.
Steve
250swb
Well-known
Etch primer doesn't etch?
Anyway its a solution of ferric chloride that you need to etch brass if you want to create a uniform surface with a fine 'tooth'. Don't leave it in for more than a minute or two or your camera parts will start to disappear.
Steve
chris7521
Well-known
It doesn't etch it enough or at all. I've tried it.
robklurfield
eclipse
250swb
Well-known
My mistake, I knew they definitely aren't aluminium or you would get galvanic corrosion between the door and the hinge. The doors are cast zinc.
Steve
250swb
Well-known
250SWB, what paint would you use to repaint an alloy-bodied 250SWB?
I'd like Rob Walker Blue (it would be pretentious to have the white stripe as well though). But I'm not sure what colour Rob Walker used. I think Ford Midnight Blue is close. But as an alloy bodied car is rare its likely to have a significant history already, so I'd do it authentically in whatever colour is original and probably a cellulose to create the correct shine and patina. All I need now is the car
Steve
robklurfield
eclipse
Steve, I was pretty certain that your screen name suggested a deep knowledge of this automotive topic. Sorry to make you frown. I also lack the car. I'd settle for a nice scale model at this point in life. I suspect I'm far more likely to own a repainted, formerly-chrome M than I am to own anything from Enzo. Though a 330GT 2+2 would like nice in my garage. Even the quad headlight one would put a smile on my face. While bicycling on Monday, I was passed by someone in a 246 Dino. Hadn't seen one of those on a public road in about a gazillion years. I suspect that my 26-year old Carrera cab (slate blue) would fetch just about enough money to cover an engine rebuild on a Ferrari. Perhaps I should stick with bicycle.
I'd like Rob Walker Blue (it would be pretentious to have the white stripe as well though). But I'm not sure what colour Rob Walker used. I think Ford Midnight Blue is close. But as an alloy bodied car is rare its likely to have a significant history already, so I'd do it authentically in whatever colour is original and probably a cellulose to create the correct shine and patina. All I need now is the car
Steve
karlori
Digital Refugee
Ouch so that means that stripping down paint from the door and prepping it for the repaint will be a lot different than from the body...
So no hydrochloric acid for it, leaves me with good old sanding ?
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
If it's Zinc then sanding is the best option for removing the paint.
You could try some ordinary paint stripper from the hardware store. Watch it carefully and take your time.
250swb
Well-known
Thats just because they were all left to gather dust until they justified restoring! A very pretty car, and even one of those is now beyond my means. The '250swb' has more than one significance, its my initials, it has a connection with what I do, and its always been a favourite. If I tried to get any more value out of it people might wrongly suspect I'm a Yorkshireman
Steve
JayGannon
Well-known
I generally hate the concept of prettifying cameras but I would love to have an M2 and an M3 in black paint with plain unengraved top plates (A la Classic M6), that would do me pretty much for life.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
What makes you think nickel should show when a BP camera wears off? Nobody suggested a solid coat of nickel applied. Only a nickel flashover to make the paint stick would be enough.
Like John said, even the professional companies he asked for advice on the repaint of a wartime Grey Leica IIIc could not solve the 'Leica Paint riddle' and advised on leaving the nickel on.
AFAIK only Shintaro, Robert J. and Peter at CCR Luton (and the late George Carr, on whom I started a thread in the Leica LTM forum) manage to do a decent job on repainting Leicas.
hteasley
Pupil
I don't know if this is a stupid suggestion or not, but motorcycle chromers aren't uncommon, if there's a need to find someone who can do that job. Bikers get custom chroming and rechroming done all the time, and stripping old chrome is part of the deal. If you can disassemble it yourself, you may have luck finding a bike chromer who could strip the chrome for you. Heck, maybe the plates could be powdercoated instead of painted?
Has anyone tried anything like that?
Has anyone tried anything like that?
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
On the web you will find that the black paint Leica uses is SENOCRYL®-Lack 05-0945. It is produced by a german company Weilburger Coatings GmbH, see here: http://www.weilburger-coatings.de/
normclarke
normclarke
There is a load of information on the web on painting and refinishing cameras and as many failiures as successes. If you hav'nt got a comercial plant it becomes more difficult to finish to a high standard. The best option that I have found is the 2 pack epoxy paint available in the U.S. that is used by gunsmiths. As far as I am aware it is unobtainable this side of the pond. I have tried etching primer but with no success on brass probably because it was not suited to brass. The prep is also crucial when starting to paint and temp and humidity also play a major part in the success or otherwise.
Best,
normclarke.
Best,
normclarke.