Leica M6 "Classic" Main Circuit Board Replacement Update 2022

I always thought that the electronics were the weakest point of Leica's cameras. In fact, the main things I have needed to repair on my Leicas (other than impact damage and foam seals on the R's) have been electronics:

Meter on 1980's M6 crapped out on 2005 or so.
Electro-magnetic switches in R4s needed replacing in 2010.
M7 shutter needed repair in Year 1.
M9 sensor replacement too (not electronic)

Wonderful cameras, but the electronics were specialty parts. The M3's keep trucking along. . . .
 
I always thought that the electronics were the weakest point of Leica's cameras. In fact, the main things I have needed to repair on my Leicas (other than impact damage and foam seals on the R's) have been electronics:

Meter on 1980's M6 crapped out on 2005 or so.
Electro-magnetic switches in R4s needed replacing in 2010.
M7 shutter needed repair in Year 1.
M9 sensor replacement too (not electronic)

Wonderful cameras, but the electronics were specialty parts. The M3's keep trucking along. . . .

And, there are 12 printed circuit boards (maybe more) in the M11. Just sayin... 🙂
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/4784382
 
The repair tech I used to work with (no longer in business, retired at the beginning of the pandemic) was telling me about the difficulty in getting some Leica M6 repair parts a decade ago. Of course, the same could be said for circuit boards for my original Nikon FM, FE, Nikkormat FE, and F Photomic FTn, to name a few that I had to have repaired over the years.

None of these things is designed to last forever. The fact that Leica (and Nikon, and...) have supplied parts for many of these ancient cameras for so long is quite wonderful.

Modern cameras (film or digital) are marvels of compact electronic/opto/mechanical engineering. Expecting them to last forever is an inappropriate expectation. When Olympus announced that they were discontinuing Olympus E-1 service back about a decade ago, I sent mine in for an evaluation and cleaning before the deadline. It had never had any problems, the service didn't show up anything new. It is still working perfectly today. Of my many Leica cameras over the past 50+ years, I've had electronics failure in just two (the X2 and the M9) and in both cases, despite being out of warranty, Leica fixed them free of charge (X2, replaced 4-way controller) or offered me a fair market value trade-in value (M9, sensor corrosion) in exchange for new product.

I can't ask for more than that. Nearly every one of my other, favorite, older "all mechanical" film cameras has required at least a major service or two as well. Several with meter and/or flash system issues... It is what it is.

G

"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."
 
I did accidentally posted this elsewhere, so I'll have another go. I must get on these forums more often but always short of time: I'm just writing a blog post about this and thought I'd add my own thoughts. So far, in order to keep Leica rangefinder cameras alive, we figured out how to restore rangefinder prisms, utilising physical vapour deposition to do so. When I got back into the business, I didn't think vacuum chambers and magnetrons would be on my tool list! In order to solve the brightline mask issue, we had to find a way of reverse engineer these things and we did just that. The M6 concerns me. Let me explain.

The circuit comprises of three main parts. The flex which is the stuff you see everywhere in computers, other cameras, flexes that break in compact camera zoom lenses etc. There is a section of conventional PCB material that houses the shutter speed contacts and components and the piggy tail (meter switch). Then you have a hybrid circuit board. I'm old school. You were not allowed to swap parts unless really necessary, you had to fault find down to component level. Everywhere else, normal soldered SMD components are used. The hybrid board is ceramic with screen printed tracks and contacts, along with what look like screen printed resistors directly onto the substrate. Some components are covered with blobs of epoxy, either to protect or hide them.

This means work is very precarious and SMD components aren't soldered, they are attached using conductive epoxy. Sometimes we can fix them, sometimes we can't. My approach is this, re-design the whole thing and remanufacture them. I'm already working on this. I might also think about the TTL version too and include adjustment pots like the M6, avoiding the need to hook the camera up to a Leica computer just for adjustment.
 
I'm thinking if my meter board ever fails in my M6 Classic, I can use the small battery compartment to store something 🙂

More seriously, M6's are fetching top-dollar these days: $3K+. Wonder with an inoperative/irreparable meter how this could affect prices if any.

Difficult to understand who would pay $3K (or even $1500) for an M6. The M6 (like the M4-2 & M4-P) was a cheaper alternative to the bodies before it. The only thing that made the M6 desirable was the meter.
 
Maybe, but if you were the manager at Leica responsible for such an effort, how would you decide how many units to order? And how long would you keep them in stock? Each of those decisions costs money and the rate at which you'd recoup your costs seems like it would be pretty slow. How many of these need replacement in a year? If the number was 1,000 I would be surprised. Too bad there isn't a "print it when you need it" capability.
 
Maybe, but if you were the manager at Leica responsible for such an effort, how would you decide how many units to order? And how long would you keep them in stock?

Let's see....they'd decide to ignore us here and get some of the desperados to part out their dead M6 whilst splurging for a new MP. The tools running Leica are luxury brand types without the slightest clue what the brand represents to devotees. Just another Fendi purse on the ledger for them.
 
I did accidentally posted this elsewhere, so I'll have another go. I must get on these forums more often but always short of time: I'm just writing a blog post about this and thought I'd add my own thoughts. So far, in order to keep Leica rangefinder cameras alive, we figured out how to restore rangefinder prisms, utilising physical vapour deposition to do so. When I got back into the business, I didn't think vacuum chambers and magnetrons would be on my tool list! In order to solve the brightline mask issue, we had to find a way of reverse engineer these things and we did just that. The M6 concerns me. Let me explain.

The circuit comprises of three main parts. The flex which is the stuff you see everywhere in computers, other cameras, flexes that break in compact camera zoom lenses etc. There is a section of conventional PCB material that houses the shutter speed contacts and components and the piggy tail (meter switch). Then you have a hybrid circuit board. I'm old school. You were not allowed to swap parts unless really necessary, you had to fault find down to component level. Everywhere else, normal soldered SMD components are used. The hybrid board is ceramic with screen printed tracks and contacts, along with what look like screen printed resistors directly onto the substrate. Some components are covered with blobs of epoxy, either to protect or hide them.

This means work is very precarious and SMD components aren't soldered, they are attached using conductive epoxy. Sometimes we can fix them, sometimes we can't. My approach is this, re-design the whole thing and remanufacture them. I'm already working on this. I might also think about the TTL version too and include adjustment pots like the M6, avoiding the need to hook the camera up to a Leica computer just for adjustment.

Thanks for your thoughts and efforts... it's incredible to see some of the efforts made to keep various cameras and lenses alive!
 
Ha, well that was quick...thanks to camerawork-uk.
As stated in that informative period piece Leica had a tight space requirement, and it seems likely that it would be possible to design another circuit to fit in that space. Perhaps even improve it.
 
I have been using on my M3 and M2 the selenium meter! Wonderful meters but as of last year one is almost dead, the other iffy. Answer for my M6TTL and the older M's, BUY one of the New meters from China! They fit in hot-shoe Inexpensive. Well worth thinking about! I do have app. on phone, but like metering in one place.
 
Last edited:
Maybe, but if you were the manager at Leica responsible for such an effort, how would you decide how many units to order? And how long would you keep them in stock? Each of those decisions costs money and the rate at which you'd recoup your costs seems like it would be pretty slow. How many of these need replacement in a year? If the number was 1,000 I would be surprised. Too bad there isn't a "print it when you need it" capability.

Maybe as a crowdfunded project? That would guarantee a certain # of sales, and the developer could recoup costs immediately. If 1000 of the things sell at $275/ea, there's potential for someone to make a bit of lunch money for their efforts.

While individual camera owners can't be expected to install the parts for themselves, they can stock up on spares if they are nervous, and like other scarce commodities, the unused parts can be bought/sold/traded, and if someone wants to speculate on the things, they can do that too.
 
While individual camera owners can't be expected to install the parts for themselves, they can stock up on spares if they are nervous, and like other scarce commodities, the unused parts can be bought/sold/traded, and if someone wants to speculate on the things, they can do that too.

Let's get the blockchain involved. Then we can really make some money!!

Call me crazy, but I plan to just enjoy using my 20+ year old camera for the time being. I find that more fun than fretting and trying to hedge against a problem that may never arise. Others may prefer to spend their time pondering contingencies & devising backup plans.
 
Difficult to understand who would pay $3K (or even $1500) for an M6. The M6 (like the M4-2 & M4-P) was a cheaper alternative to the bodies before it. The only thing that made the M6 desirable was the meter.

These were not "cheaper" cameras. They were redesigned to be built with less cost of manufacture but to the same quality levels as the prior models in order that Leica could continue to make a profit at the same prices and stay in business rather than be unprofitable and fail. They improve on earlier models in some ways and prove more serviceable at lower cost too. The electronics of the M6 and later metered bodies are the most likely components that can be difficult to source now, 40 years on. An M4-2 or M4-P remains perfectly serviceable in that they have no sophisticated electronics in them.

Reduced cost of manufacture came from redesigning components such that the cameras could be assembled with much less expensive hand labor than the prior models, more in line with other manufacturing processes of the 1970s vs the 1950s-1960s. Fewer comports need hand shimming to tolerance, component assemblies reassembled to greater precision with more automated machinery, etc. The end effect is less costly to put together at the same quality, not cheaper which implies lower quality.
 
...

Call me crazy, but I plan to just enjoy using my 20+ year old camera for the time being. I find that more fun than fretting and trying to hedge against a problem that may never arise. Others may prefer to spend their time pondering contingencies & devising backup plans.

I agree. I have my old cameras serviced and just use them. When they can no longer be serviced or repaired, and need to be, I'll retire them and move on to something else. I do hedge serviceability by choosing cameras without meters or batteries to worry about most of the time, and by getting a couple of them (if priced reasonably) so I can work around the inevitable downtimes required by maintenance and service.

Leica bodies are a bit pricey so I only have the one M4-2. Kodak Retina IIc cameras are relatively cheap, very high quality, and take to service well, so I have a few of those. Etc. 😀

G
 
Back
Top Bottom