rphenning
Established
I have used a 35mm range finder for about a year now. I really love the rangefinder system but I have found that 35mm is just to small of a negative for me. I have had my sights set on a mamiya 7 and lens as a kind of "bigger leica". What kind of experiences do you have with this sort of transition? Anything to watch out for? I have read a lot about the reliability and build quality of the mamiyas, some say it is fine and some say it is really fragile. I'm not hard on equipment at all but at the same time it is just a tool and I don't really baby it. I love the idea of 10 shots on a roll, I always didn't like 36 photos. Way too much film for one roll in my opinion. Preferably I would want the 7 with 65 f/4. I have a M4 and 35 f/2 now. Know anyone that is keen on a trade?
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
If you can live with f/4 then it is definately a step up. Both the M4 and 35/2 are sought after so no doubt you can sell those easily and then buy the Mamiya used somewhere.
emraphoto
Veteran
once you see the negs from a mamiya 7 and 65mm it will be no turning back.
i am very hard on my gear and so far no issue with the 7.
i am very hard on my gear and so far no issue with the 7.
gns
Well-known
In the early-mid eighties, after about 8 years with a leica + 35mm lens as my only camera, I made the switch to a 6 x 7 rangefinder (a Plaubel Makina W67). I Shelved the leica and used only that for the next decade and a half or so.
Even though the Plaubel is a compact 6 x 7, it's no leica as far as handling goes, so that took a little getting used to. As did the squarer format. The interesting thing about it was how I didn't just adapt the camera to what I'd been doing before (as I wrongly thought might happen), but rather adjusted my interest in subjects to fit the new camera. I just sort of naturally started to explore different kinds of subjects, which was great.
Oh, I hated having to change rolls every 10 frames. But printing those negs was a pleasure compared to 35mm. With 35mm, I printed everything on 11 x 14, but with the larger negs I almost always enlarged them to just 6" x 7" on 8 x 10 paper. You might think that sounds crazy, but I just liked the look and totally seamless detail of them.
Good luck with the transition.
Cheers,
Gary
Even though the Plaubel is a compact 6 x 7, it's no leica as far as handling goes, so that took a little getting used to. As did the squarer format. The interesting thing about it was how I didn't just adapt the camera to what I'd been doing before (as I wrongly thought might happen), but rather adjusted my interest in subjects to fit the new camera. I just sort of naturally started to explore different kinds of subjects, which was great.
Oh, I hated having to change rolls every 10 frames. But printing those negs was a pleasure compared to 35mm. With 35mm, I printed everything on 11 x 14, but with the larger negs I almost always enlarged them to just 6" x 7" on 8 x 10 paper. You might think that sounds crazy, but I just liked the look and totally seamless detail of them.
Good luck with the transition.
Cheers,
Gary
eric mac
Established
Sliding by
Sliding by
If you go the Mamiya or 120 route, ( I have a Mamiya 6) make sure one of your first rolls are some slide film. You ain't seen nothing until you loupe a 6x6 chrome.
Eric
Sliding by
If you go the Mamiya or 120 route, ( I have a Mamiya 6) make sure one of your first rolls are some slide film. You ain't seen nothing until you loupe a 6x6 chrome.
Eric
fotomeow
name under my name
Im a big fan of the "Texas Leica" : Mamiya 6s and 7s. I agree with Eric above, the large negatives are quite fabulous, rich, and detailed. I've loved the use of my Mamiya 6 over the years;
What to watch out for? I would just use your gut feelings for buying any camera: look for rugged build and read what other guys on RFF and others review about the camera. Mamiya has a great reputation for its medium format cameras, b/c they build them to last, especially the Mamiya 6 and 7s which can withstand the jostling around of travel photography (one thing they are designed for).
I also like the 6 b/c it has a retractable bellows behind the lens mount, making this camera not only big enought for 6cmX6cm and 6cmX4.5cm negatives, but also small enough to carry around (your neck) and not be burdened by size or weight.......(
FYI: I will be listing my Mamiya 6 for sale here soon, you can PM me if interested before that).
In any case, good luck with your search, you really cant go wrong with 120 format Mamiyas.
Gary
What to watch out for? I would just use your gut feelings for buying any camera: look for rugged build and read what other guys on RFF and others review about the camera. Mamiya has a great reputation for its medium format cameras, b/c they build them to last, especially the Mamiya 6 and 7s which can withstand the jostling around of travel photography (one thing they are designed for).
I also like the 6 b/c it has a retractable bellows behind the lens mount, making this camera not only big enought for 6cmX6cm and 6cmX4.5cm negatives, but also small enough to carry around (your neck) and not be burdened by size or weight.......(
FYI: I will be listing my Mamiya 6 for sale here soon, you can PM me if interested before that).
In any case, good luck with your search, you really cant go wrong with 120 format Mamiyas.
Gary
Gary Sandhu
Well-known
My mamiya 7 as compared to the Leica mp: brilliant finder and similar focussing patch, more quiet, bulkier, easier to hold, good build but more plastic. As for the images, bigger is better.
smiling gecko
pure dumb luck, my friend
i have enjoyed using my mamiya 6, which i have had for over ten years. it has been dependable, robust, and capable of producing images that make me look like i am a better photographer than i am...
i don't have any experience with the mamiya 7, so i can't share any insights with you on that. i prefer composing and printing to the square format or i would have looked more closely at the mamiya 7...shhh, dont want my pentax 6x7 to hear that.
along the way i have also used/owned/sold/kept various tlr's, pentax 6x7, hasselblad swc/m, holga, diana, crown graphic (4x5), and rolleiflex slx & 6002.
periodically i go back and forth between the mamiya 6 and my leica m6 & 35mm f2, or leica cl & 40mm f2 or oly om2 or nikon f2, and some other 35mm cameras and have come up with some pretty good images.
first off, i am not a very technically oriented or skilled photographer. over the past year or two or three (?) i have come to prefer the "medium format look" - for me that is the increase in tonal range, what i see as more sharpness, and images that generally look as good at 10 x10, 15 x15 or 20x 20 as they as 5 x5's. i have printed 35mm, various 120 formats and 4 x 5 when i worked professionally and for myself.
sorry to go on and on, i just want to give you some background on how i have arrived at using the mamiya 6 as my daily camera. there is the so-called delicate winding mechanism - that has never been a problem - although i believe some folks have experienced that problem. did they have a flawed camera or one abused by a previous owner ? who knows. then there is the issue of the non-through-the-lens metering system. again no major problems there, i have always regarded the meter readings to be suggestions and use my fuzzy non-technical brain to sort it out. some complain - myself included - the lens selection is too small, the lens speeds too slow for low light work, and the close focus distances preclude "close focussing".
it would have been terrific to have a 40mm or 60mm to chose from...oh well. the upside to having only the 50mm, 75mm and 150mm focal lengths is it keeps the gear volume down and makes one think a little more about how to pre-visualize and translate that to the "right" focal length. the upside to the slower lens apertures is it keeps the lens size and weight down. the close focus issue...hmm, no upside there. to bring up a small detail, that is one of the times i'll use the advantage of the larger negative size. i'll enlarge that area as much as i can - up to a point.
wow, i am on a tear here...brevity has never been my strong suit...
since you are already a rangefinder user you know well the strengths and weaknesses of the breed. it sounds as though you will not find the fewer exposures per roll to be a hinderance. i suspect there may be a mamiya 7 or 6 owner out there that would looove the trade you mentioned.
feel free to give me a shout with any questions about the transition you are out to make.
breathe, relax, and enjoy...
happy trails,
kenneth
i don't have any experience with the mamiya 7, so i can't share any insights with you on that. i prefer composing and printing to the square format or i would have looked more closely at the mamiya 7...shhh, dont want my pentax 6x7 to hear that.
along the way i have also used/owned/sold/kept various tlr's, pentax 6x7, hasselblad swc/m, holga, diana, crown graphic (4x5), and rolleiflex slx & 6002.
periodically i go back and forth between the mamiya 6 and my leica m6 & 35mm f2, or leica cl & 40mm f2 or oly om2 or nikon f2, and some other 35mm cameras and have come up with some pretty good images.
first off, i am not a very technically oriented or skilled photographer. over the past year or two or three (?) i have come to prefer the "medium format look" - for me that is the increase in tonal range, what i see as more sharpness, and images that generally look as good at 10 x10, 15 x15 or 20x 20 as they as 5 x5's. i have printed 35mm, various 120 formats and 4 x 5 when i worked professionally and for myself.
sorry to go on and on, i just want to give you some background on how i have arrived at using the mamiya 6 as my daily camera. there is the so-called delicate winding mechanism - that has never been a problem - although i believe some folks have experienced that problem. did they have a flawed camera or one abused by a previous owner ? who knows. then there is the issue of the non-through-the-lens metering system. again no major problems there, i have always regarded the meter readings to be suggestions and use my fuzzy non-technical brain to sort it out. some complain - myself included - the lens selection is too small, the lens speeds too slow for low light work, and the close focus distances preclude "close focussing".
it would have been terrific to have a 40mm or 60mm to chose from...oh well. the upside to having only the 50mm, 75mm and 150mm focal lengths is it keeps the gear volume down and makes one think a little more about how to pre-visualize and translate that to the "right" focal length. the upside to the slower lens apertures is it keeps the lens size and weight down. the close focus issue...hmm, no upside there. to bring up a small detail, that is one of the times i'll use the advantage of the larger negative size. i'll enlarge that area as much as i can - up to a point.
wow, i am on a tear here...brevity has never been my strong suit...
since you are already a rangefinder user you know well the strengths and weaknesses of the breed. it sounds as though you will not find the fewer exposures per roll to be a hinderance. i suspect there may be a mamiya 7 or 6 owner out there that would looove the trade you mentioned.
feel free to give me a shout with any questions about the transition you are out to make.
breathe, relax, and enjoy...
happy trails,
kenneth
pevelg
Well-known
I purchase my first Mamiya about 1.5 to 2 years ago, used it on a vacation in Alaska and sold it afterwards. After selling the Mamiya I stuck with the Leica M6ttl and various lenses. Yet every time I looked at my Mamiya negatives/positives, I had the greatest yearning to get back to my Mamiya 7. After over a year and also owning a RD1, I went and sold my RD1 and purchased a Mamiya 7ii from Tony several months ago. Once you see those negatives/positives, there is just no going back to only 35mm. That being said...
There is one major drawback to the Mamiya, and that is the F4 speed. With a tripod and good film, this is not usually a problem, unless shooting people/movement in low light. The lenses are just not made for low light. The rangefinder is very good, though I like the M6 and M4 finders better. The build quality is not that of a Leica, but is rather good.
Due to the drawback of slow speed, I just ended up buying a 35mm body, the Leica M4. Though I love the Mamiya 7ii, there are situations where it would be better to use a fast 35mm camera. I think I now have a good setup, look at the signature, and I am pretty confident I won't be leaving my Mamiya 7ii anytime soon.
You can always buy 220 film. My lab charges about $8 bucks to develop a 120 roll, and only $10 for a 220 roll. You can save a bit of money this way. 220 film usually costs 2x that of 120, so no problem there.
There is one major drawback to the Mamiya, and that is the F4 speed. With a tripod and good film, this is not usually a problem, unless shooting people/movement in low light. The lenses are just not made for low light. The rangefinder is very good, though I like the M6 and M4 finders better. The build quality is not that of a Leica, but is rather good.
Due to the drawback of slow speed, I just ended up buying a 35mm body, the Leica M4. Though I love the Mamiya 7ii, there are situations where it would be better to use a fast 35mm camera. I think I now have a good setup, look at the signature, and I am pretty confident I won't be leaving my Mamiya 7ii anytime soon.
You can always buy 220 film. My lab charges about $8 bucks to develop a 120 roll, and only $10 for a 220 roll. You can save a bit of money this way. 220 film usually costs 2x that of 120, so no problem there.
katgut@earthlink.net
Established
I use both Leica M2 and Mamiya 6. I've not found the slower lenses to ever be an issue for me. You can use faster film like Tmax 400, and still get sharper images with less grain than 35mm. I have had issues with some brands of 120 film (like Plus-X) not coming smoothly off the spool at the end of the roll, and once I almost forced it. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been a major cause of winder failure. Otherwise, there seem to be no reason why the winder should fail. The finder of the Mamiya blows away the Leica. The only thing I hate about the Mamiya is loading it: you really have to sit down and use both hands, ideally having something soft the rest the camera on. Personally, I find loading 120 on a reel for development to be much easier than 35mm.
rphenning
Established
So from the responses I have gathered that as long as I am not a complete idiot with the camera and as long as I don't mess with the RF coupler, I should be fine. The 7 looks so insane, I am kinda frothing right now over the notion of not having to change my shooting style but getting nearly the same size neg as my 4x5 view camera.
rphenning
Established
and kenneth thanks a lot for what you wrote, pretty insightful stuff
ChrisN
Striving
Hmmm. Even if the 6x7 gives a 6x7 image area on the negative, that's still only 42 sq centimeters. A 4x5 negative has an image sixe of about 12 x 9.5 cm, for 114 sq cm. But hey, 6x7 is a great format.
rphenning
Established
I meant ratio wise. I was tired. ha.
Roger Warren
AddlepatedWight
I love using both my Leica MP and Mamiya 7II. For me to choose which camera to use at any given time can be a hard choice. Most times I just have to force rotating each outing. True, the Mamiya's build isn't on the same level as Leica but, I've had zero problems with it in some of the most extreme environments. I could never part with either camera.
sanmich
Veteran
Most poster seem to say that for what their type of work, MF is like 35mm, just better.
For quickly moving, fast pace PJ style, nothing beats 35mm, with its small size, fast glass and high autonomy (well, please don't compare to digital).
IMHO, they are kings in different areas.
I think it's usefull to have both, but if I have to chose only one, it would be 35mm...
just my 2 shekels
For quickly moving, fast pace PJ style, nothing beats 35mm, with its small size, fast glass and high autonomy (well, please don't compare to digital
).IMHO, they are kings in different areas.
I think it's usefull to have both, but if I have to chose only one, it would be 35mm...
just my 2 shekels
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I had a full Mamiya 6 system 16-17 years ago, three bodies and even the NPC Polaroid back. And I've played with the Mamiya 7 and the SLRs, owned a Blad system, etc. The build quality is fine, they won't fall apart, but...
1. They are pointless for handheld low-light photography.
2. I don't like hexagonal apertures because I'll shoot backlit stuff and the bokeh sucks.
3. They are plasticy and nowheres near the build quality of a Leica.
4. Yep, the Mamiya 6 winding mechanism is likely to fail and be unfixable.
While I am sure the Mamiya lenses are sharper and have more contrast, the most satisfying medium format experience I've had has been with the Rolleiflex TLRs. They are quiet, pleasantly "odd", and their build quality and FEEL compliments a Leica.
Having a larger negative has more to do than sharpness, I could care less about resolution and I shoot plenty of large format too. I want tonality, smoothness, character. If I want clinical cold shots I could use a Mamiya or a digital....
Why not keep the M4 and get a $200 Rolleicord V and see how you like it?
1. They are pointless for handheld low-light photography.
2. I don't like hexagonal apertures because I'll shoot backlit stuff and the bokeh sucks.
3. They are plasticy and nowheres near the build quality of a Leica.
4. Yep, the Mamiya 6 winding mechanism is likely to fail and be unfixable.
While I am sure the Mamiya lenses are sharper and have more contrast, the most satisfying medium format experience I've had has been with the Rolleiflex TLRs. They are quiet, pleasantly "odd", and their build quality and FEEL compliments a Leica.
Having a larger negative has more to do than sharpness, I could care less about resolution and I shoot plenty of large format too. I want tonality, smoothness, character. If I want clinical cold shots I could use a Mamiya or a digital....
Why not keep the M4 and get a $200 Rolleicord V and see how you like it?
edodo
Well-known
If I may just add my 2 cents.
I think you should get a working rolleicord. The negs are going to be gorgeous if you can live with the normal lens.
The rolleicord V in good working order should not be expensive and will deliver. Keep the M4, you will regret it.
lol I just said the same thing as Frank!
I think you should get a working rolleicord. The negs are going to be gorgeous if you can live with the normal lens.
The rolleicord V in good working order should not be expensive and will deliver. Keep the M4, you will regret it.
lol I just said the same thing as Frank!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Take a hard look at the Linhof Technika 70 as well.
Coupled RF for up to 3 lenses (6 with two cams, 9 with 3 cams, etc.); the best RF finder EVER; full-sized 56x72mm frame; lenses including 53 Biogon and 100/2.8 Planar; meter; and view camera movements when you put it on a tripod...
Cheers,
R.
Coupled RF for up to 3 lenses (6 with two cams, 9 with 3 cams, etc.); the best RF finder EVER; full-sized 56x72mm frame; lenses including 53 Biogon and 100/2.8 Planar; meter; and view camera movements when you put it on a tripod...
Cheers,
R.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
... and a full upper-body workout every time you take it for a walk.