Jan Pedersen
Well-known
Perhaps not a war but a little argument? The difference I think is much more subtle than film versus digital
thompsonks
Well-known
Or not even an argument, just looking for some evidence.
Kirk
Kirk
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I doubt there will be much difference to speak of.
All I have to do is look at Jono's comparison DNGs to say, "I'll be happy with that."
G
All I have to do is look at Jono's comparison DNGs to say, "I'll be happy with that."
G
thompsonks
Well-known
Pixel-peepin' for tonality, looking at Jono's ISO 320 files of the cabinet (LR sharpening set to 0):
The first thing I noticed is that the densities (some combination of meters/sensors) weren't quite the same. So I adjusted the Joseph Conrad book in both images to the same density.
The main difference I saw at base ISO was not resolution, but a difference in contrast. The M9M/CCD image is contrastier than the M246/CMOS one, and the 246 highlights look subtler.
Judging from this enormous sample of one (1), my guess is that the new sensor will be gentler in the highlights. Its 'native' tonality looked more pleasing to my eye.
Kirk
The first thing I noticed is that the densities (some combination of meters/sensors) weren't quite the same. So I adjusted the Joseph Conrad book in both images to the same density.
The main difference I saw at base ISO was not resolution, but a difference in contrast. The M9M/CCD image is contrastier than the M246/CMOS one, and the 246 highlights look subtler.
Judging from this enormous sample of one (1), my guess is that the new sensor will be gentler in the highlights. Its 'native' tonality looked more pleasing to my eye.
Kirk
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Between the time I asked that question and now, I chose to commit to the new camera. With the DNG file comparisons that I scrutinized, the 246 seems to be sharper, and there's less 'grain' at higher ISO's. Definitely confirmed my decision.
I've been exhibiting a lot lately at a number of area gallery spaces -- I don't think I'll have to change my title cards to now read 'Archival Pigment Print from CCD Sensor Camera Image', 'Archival Pigment Print from CMOS Sensor Camera Image'.
jonoslack
Member
Hi there Kirk
I think you're right - Obviously, without colour information it's still important not to overexpose - but it seems to me to be less critical than it is with the old camera. There is certainly more dynamic range as well.
Definitely an improvement, but as Jaap says, whether it's worth the price for the upgrade is a different matter.
One thing I was convinced of when it arrived at Christmas time was that I was not going to buy it . . . . . . . . Now I'm scrabbling about looking for things to sell!
all the best
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
This is what I would expect with the CMOS sensor. The lower noise/higher ISO is a bonus. Big buffer, bigger screen, and huge battery life are a double bonus.
My MM9 still is a great and very capable camera. The differences in rendering kinda wants me to own both. The tonality that I get from my MM9 is exactly what I want, meaning a great midrange. Two monochrom cameras that offer different renderings is interesting to me.
Cal
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
Once you crack the problem of making the MM and M246 files look alike via Lightroom, you'll probably apply the adage that "nothing dies of old age on the veldt." I suspect that this has been the case with many people who thought they would keep their M9s after buying their M240s and then quietly sold off the old cameras because the perceived "uniqueness" of M9 files was not justified by the annoyance factors the old electronics presented. I'm sure the same thing will happen with the M240 when a faster EVF arrives with an updated camera.
D
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Dante,
You make a good point, but I'm a guy who tends to shoot two or three Leicas at a time because I don't do lens changing in the street. I tend to shoot with a wide and a 50 for a spread with film and sometimes I add an ultrawide.
Economically it is like buying a new car and keeping the old car because it is still reliable. Understand at one time I owned 5 cars.
I would exploit the differences rather than make them the same for creative purposes.
Cal
seakayaker1
Well-known
I enjoyed reading the reviews and the posts throughout this thread. There were numerous positive comments from current & past users of the MM in this thread that pushed me over the edge and I could no longer resist. I ordered a Silver Monochrome from one of the sponsors of RFF. (a fantastic price with a full warranty)
Should have it on Monday or Tuesday next week and look forward to the experience.
...... it is now time to downsize some gear ......
Should have it on Monday or Tuesday next week and look forward to the experience.
...... it is now time to downsize some gear ......
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Congrats. I think you are going ot love it...
Clark.EE
Well-known
Sony A7bw announcement soon.
£1200.00 ?
£1200.00 ?
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
I doubt Sony has the attention span to do something like that. Based on past performance, if they can't sell through in one cycle, they won't do it.
Dante
thompsonks
Well-known
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Leica has moved to a product naming schema similar to what Mercedes uses. For instance, Mercedes has been making the SLK model since 1996 and it's always referred to as the SLK, with year and another code to indicate engine (e.g.: "2000 Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor"). To differentiate which series it is, they each have a type code (type 170, 171, 172 are the three major versions of the SLK). "Typ" in German is translated "type" in English. On enthusiast forums, you most often hear people discussing issues with their cars by referring to the type.
So the "Leica M typ 240" is the full name of the current standard Leica M and differentiates it from the M8, M9, M-E, and all prior versions, as well as other current variants (M-P [typ 240], M Monochrom [typ 246]) etc.
Expressions like M240, M-P240, MM246, etc, are simply short-hand terms for ease of discussion.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
No, the M-P is a variant on the M typ 240 base model. It differs from the M in that the M-P has a bit more buffer space (more captures in sequence shooting without filling the buffer), sapphire cover*glass on the LCD and viewfinder, and lacks the red dot and other branding on the front of the camera. There might be a couple other small differences. It seems just a hair faster/more responsive than the M240 model I had for a few hours when I was deciding whether to go with the upgrade.
G
maitani
Well-known
I'm with you here Ned, the new stuff has zero appeal to me, esp at the asked prices. I have one M8 left for the sake of instant gratification when I want the convenience of digital, I have moved 98% back to analogue.
oh and the DMR which is my digital colour back.
DavidKKHansen
Well-known
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I think it's simply a matter that Leica spells it "typ" even in their US/UK English manuals and sales literature, just like they spell "Monochrom" without the trailing "e". It becomes part of the product naming. Mercedes doesn't include the type reference in their customer documentation, so there everyone uses "type" when speaking in English.
"Typ" just became the norm due to how the literature is written. I don't think anyone means to imply anything silly by it.
G
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Just got word from the Leica Pusher - my 246 is in!!!!