Leica MP vs M6 LHSA TTL

[Jaans]

I was hoping that someone could provide me with some information about these two cameras.

I currently own and use a M6 TTL .72 on a regular basis. I am now in Australia and the flare from the finder is driving me nuts with the harsh backlight.

Anyway, I have owned and adored a M2, M3, CLE, M6 classic .85 and now the TTL.

I have always yearned for a MP and have some questions about it.

a) What kind of metering system does it employ - is it the same as the classic or the newer TTL. For example: >< OR >0<

I like the newer TTL metering indicators.

b) Do all MP's have the rangefinder flare free upgrade?

c) I want black, so are they all black paint or are some black enamel? Is there a price difference?

d) With the TTL LHSA I like the styling and black dot.

Does it have a flare free finder as well? Are the parts stronger than the regular TTL?

Is the LHSA black paint or enamel?

e) What would the price difference be between the LHSA and the MP?

Thanks for any advice or know how with these questions,
Cheers

 

[Nugard]

a) >o<
b)Yes
c)I think black paint and black enamel are the same, the other one is black chrome. There might be some difference, but with the cost od camera it doesn't metter much.
d)Parts are not stronger or better, I think it's just the look of the camera that was changed. Don't know about flares in TTL LHSA. I think Tom A might know the answer.
e)LHSA TTL might be cheaper.

 

[Turtle]

Answers below

a) What kind of metering system does it employ - is it the same as the classic or the newer TTL. For example: >< OR >0<

I like the newer TTL metering indicators.

b) Do all MP's have the rangefinder flare free upgrade? YES

c) I want black, so are they all black paint or are some black enamel? Is there a price difference? Black paint, or silver chrome unless you get an a la carte one. Wears better than expected, grippier by far than chrome or black chrome.

d) With the TTL LHSA I like the styling and black dot.

Does it have a flare free finder as well? Are the parts stronger than the regular TTL? Nope. Regular M6 finder. Upgrades are about $250.

Is the LHSA black paint or enamel? Black Paint. Same as MP

e) What would the price difference be between the LHSA and the MP? few hundred more for the MP based on real world prices not the fantasy prices on Epay.

Thanks for any advice or know how with these questions,
Cheers[/QUOTE]

My advice? For use forget the LHSA as it is an overpriced regular M6 TTL. Either get a regular M6 classic or TTL and upgrade the finder or get the MP. I use MPs and a M6 (not upgraded) in Afghanistan and the MP finder is MILES better against the light, especially inside with bright windows. My 0.85 classic becomes almost unworkable under some light where the MPs have flared maybe only once or twice in 4 years and a small adjustment of eye position fixes it. With the 0.85 classic when it is real bad there is nothing you can do apart from to recompose. Mine will be upgraded when next in for a service.

PS metering indication is for with arrows for under/over, fading arrows and a dot when closers and then a red dot standing alone when smack on. Works well.

 

[MCTuomey]

i think the MP finder is worth having, whether you have it done on your M6 ttl or you simply buy the MP. i had it done on an M6 and have owned a couple of upgraded M7's. less flare-y and also seems to have slightly more contrast in the patch, i think.

 

[ianglean]

How much does it cost to upgrade the m6 to a MP finder?

 

[mgd711]

Anywhere between $250 to $400 plus shipping.

I've never had a problem with an M6 and M6TTL in the harsh light here Ian so I doubt you'll have a problem either.

 

[silent1]

I used to have a finder flare problem with my M6TTL.
Solved with a $10 dedicated shade 🙂

 

[Leica All Day]

I just got my m6ttl back from Sherry K. last week and when it was getting repaired I had her install the MP finder (it was around 215 USD).....She said it would be easier to focus in low light (higher contrast focusing patch)...I have never had a big problem with flare in the past, but I decided to go for the upgrade because I was curious....I still haven't noticed anything that different yet but then again it has only been a week and I sort of "forgot" how the old finder was...

I will say this, last sunday, while I was shooting in a temple here and after using my m6ttl for most of the day, I pulled out my M3 that had a 50mm on it and....wow, what a difference...talk about an excellent (but limited) finder....

cheers, michael

 

[Turtle]

flare most of an issue with the 0.85 finder. The 0.72 is supposedly not nearly as bad, but still not as good as the MP finder. The M6 0.85 IS a pig if you shoot interiors with the patch on a darker lower contrast area and with a bright light source somewhere in the frame just off axis. Most of the rest of the time it is fine. However, when shooting a current part of a project inside a dingy drug clinic it bites again and again.

 

[Andy Kibber]

The M6 0.85 IS a pig if you shoot interiors with the patch on a darker lower contrast area and with a bright light source somewhere in the frame just off axis. Most of the rest of the time it is fine.

Agreed. I had the .85 finder in my M6TTL upgraded. Made a significant difference, but it would still flare on occasion. Not a huge problem, but irritating at times.

 

[dogberryjr]

Here's CameraQuest's take on the M6 LHSA: http://cameraquest.com/lm6lhsa.htm

It's a beautiful camera.

 

[peter_n]

I had an 0.72x M6TTL and the VF whiteout was terrible if you had slanting sunlight coming in at an angle. I now use MP bodies and neither have this problem. OP: the LHSA bodies are just gussied up bog standard issue for the collectors, although maybe the M6TTL is brass. I use an LHSA MP that I bought scratched up and it's nice but really just a regular MP. I think you'd be better off getting the MP rather than another M6TTL. Yes it'll be a few hundred more but you'll pay $250-300 for the VF upgrade on the M6.

 

[KM-25]

I have an M6TTL with the MP finder upgrade and an M3 lever, it is my primary M camera due to the TTL option. I think the R/F upgrade is worth it.

 

[kzphoto]

Upgraded my M6TTL .72 to the newer flare free optics. DAG charges $200. Camera came back in 3 weeks and the upgrade made the viewfinder much contrastier. Would reccomend to anyone.

 

[jonmanjiro]

b) Do all MP's have the rangefinder flare free upgrade?

Contrary to the conventional wisdom, I would say no.

It appears that *some* of the very early MP's got the original M7 finder.

The reason I say that is because I had a chance to directly compare several MP bodies at MAP Camera in Tokyo a while back (they had at least 20 used MPs in stock at the time), and one of them (with a very early serial number) had a finder with a different colour tint from the later MP's. The tint was identical to the finders on the early M7's MAP Camera had in stock.

There's a possibility that the finder was switched out, but the MAP Camera guy thought it a lot more likely that Leica just used up all the early M7 finders on both M7's and MP's first, before switching over to the new type finder.

 

[Bully]

jonmanjiro,

that´s definitively wrong.

ALL MP´s have the new flare-free finder, also known as the "MP-finder".

In the beginning of the M7-production (the first year or so) there was the older flare-finder from the M6 TTL and predecessors.

Cheers
Robert

 

[jonmanjiro]

you're probably right, Robert.

though i'm not sure what other explanations there could be for the two types of MP finders i saw. here's the post i made last april, where i mentioned this (link to the thread is here).

I handled several black MPs and survived to tell the tale. But black MPs are indeed very very sexy 😀

Here's something weird I noticed with two I looked at that someone may be able to shed more light on for me...

I compared the finders on MP serial no. 288**** and MP serial no. 349**** (I forget the exact serial no.s) and the one with the earlier serial no. had a different type of coating on the finder compared to the later serial no. MP. It looked the same colour as the coating on the earlier M7 finders. Do some of the earlier MPs actually have an M7 finder???

 

[Jaans]

A special thankyou to everyone who contributed with information.

I have another question:

After reading all of the responses it got me thinking - I wonder when the flare free rangefinder was introduced for these later M models? It wasn't put into the LHSA, so did it come with the M7 first or the MP?

Also, it seems that because the LHSA also has a brass base then through use it can garner a nice brassing? I haven't seen anywhere on the net someones LHSA brassed up through use, probably because users may mistake it for a potential collectors item and treat it with kid gloves.

I am currently using the TTL so I may lean toward the LHSA as I have become comfortable with that shutter speed dial. Also, it may be worth to get one upgraded to a flare free version.

Does anyone also know the current market value of a MP? LHSA? Ebay withstanding.

Interesting discussion.
Thanks again.

 

[Tom A]

Why not have the finder on your existing TTL upgraded to a MP finder? As stated before in the thread - the LHSA is just a black painted TTL with no fancy finder or anything.
The MP is improved, but is it worth the extra money - it is up to the user/buyer. My MP's are 0.58 finders so no problem with flare. My LHSA is a 0.85 and if there was enough sun around, it could flare. I also have several M6's (0.58 retrofit) and 0.72's. Never had a problem with flare with any of them. In your case I would upgrade the existing M6TTL to a "flare free" MP finder and pick up a 2nd body - either a bog-standard M6 (0.72) or another M6TTL, preferably a 0.58 - unless you are using a lot of 90/135 lenses to work with.
Australia has some of the harshest light that I know off - and unless I tried it with a MP 0.85 for flare - I would wait with the upgrade. Even the best finder can be made to flare in Outback Light!
The paint on the LHSA is thin and does wear quickly. I was involved in this project and it was interesting trying to convince Solms to actually do it "Oh, but if we paint them, they will wear and become brassy!!" - When we said that that was fine, they looked a bit dumbfounded and thought the whole thing was very un-germanic!

 

[tjh]

I have a regular 0.58 M6TTL and a 0.72 M6TTL LHSA. The M6TTL has been serviced by DAG and is quite smooth in operation. Still, the LHSA body is the smoothest Leica I've ever used, though I haven't handled an MP. The LHSA has a brass top but also seems to have some other changes. Some years ago, there was a dental lab. owner - Jay? - on the Photonet forum. He pointed out that some screws visible from the opened back were different - added I think - on the LHSA as compared with the regular TTL. There is at least this minor change.

Overall, I think the LHSA camera could be a bargain. Except for the upgraded finder, I suspect that the LHSA M6 is much like the MP, but with the shutter speed dial of the regular TTL. I love my LHSA camera!