Leica's M9 and Mini M plan

leicasniper said:
Because they will be able to at small cost in five years.
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And this will give the P+S market better pictures at lower cost, with smaller cameras? Historically, the trend has ALWAYS been to smaller formats: lenses are easier to build, d-o-f is greater, cameras are smaller (including smaller lens-to-film distances).

So I repeat: why?

(Quite apart from the fact that I am reasonably confident that you are completely wrong. Do not bother to address this part of the argument.)

Cheers,

R.
 
mknawabi said:
Eh. Speaking as an eighteen year old with a Leica, the only people who really know about them from my experience are people from the older crowd. Sadly, the children these days are all about their little digital point and shoots and Nikon d40s or canon xti's.
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Hey, at least they're taking pictures.
 
Leica mini M

Leica mini M

leicasniper said:
DAH bought a IIIf when he was 12. Not a cheap camera even then. But, it's a little hard to buy an M8 and Summilux with a paper route. Unless they have some rich parents, an entry level M digital is not going to be their route into serious photography. And there's the problem for Leica. That serious kid is going to start with a Canon or Nikon, acquire a bunch of glass for either, and likely stay with them.
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To tell you the truth I'm making very beautifull pictures right now with a Sony DSLR camera, but I'm still missing something in my pictures.
A DSLR is way to big to make those precious private portret shots, people
see you coming miles away with your big camera...
On my photography art school most students have Canon, Nikon DSLR's. but the students don't even have clue what a typical 35 mm prime lens can do with their photographs, they all have zoom's and shoot their pictures with random settings.
The lenses are very important to get that special look on your picture, Leica has special lenses that can do that, give your picture that extra, that you won't get with your Sigma,Tamron vacation zoom on your DSLR....
It's a shame that the Noctilux is no longer available, for this was my dream lens, this lens can make your pictures look just like paintings
and this the difference between Canon,Nikon photographers and Leica photographers, if you just want a picture buy a DSLR, if you want to capture life, and transform it into art buy a Leica.
 
zerrax said:
. . . if you just want a picture buy a DSLR, if you want to capture life, and transform it into art buy a Leica.
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This is perhaps a slight overstatement, and one that will get you lots of flak, but it makes the important point that you want the right tool for the job and for you. Too many people say, "All you need is..." (usually "what I've got" or "what I'm currently fantasizing about") while others say, "It doesn't matter what camera you use," which is a bit like saying "It doesn't matter what you eat." It may not matter to them but it sure as hell matters to you.

Cheers,

R.
 
What's the obsession with full frame?

The M8 need the help of a computer to correct the vignetting on wide lens and that will just get worse with full frame, unless the M9 becomes much wider bodied.

A full frame M with the same dimensions would be more computer than camera.

"You can't change the laws of physics" as Scotty once said!

Regards

SR
 
SR1 said:
What's the obsession with full frame?

The M8 need the help of a computer to correct the vignetting on wide lens and that will just get worse with full frame, unless the M9 becomes much wider bodied.

A full frame M with the same dimensions would be more computer than camera.

"You can't change the laws of physics" as Scotty once said!

Regards

SR
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You are right and it links back to other posts on this thread. The younger people not aware of Leica are probably not aware of what full frame means. In the end, if you never used film and M mount cameras (this must already be probably 98% of camera users), you don't care. If you switch to a M system, you just start from scratch with a 1.3 crop factor, but since you don't know about the FF look you just learn your lens without baseline.
 
😀
SR1 said:
What's the obsession with full frame?

The M8 need the help of a computer to correct the vignetting on wide lens and that will just get worse with full frame, unless the M9 becomes much wider bodied.

A full frame M with the same dimensions would be more computer than camera.

"You can't change the laws of physics" as Scotty once said!

Regards

SR
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Yea, but somehow, Scotty always got them through. 😀

No, you can't change physics, but you can find ways of dealing with it. The current sensor gets pretty creative in addressing the problem. Who knows what some guy lots smarter than you or I will come up with next?
In the long term, you never lose betting on technology coming through with a solution. If there's money to be had, someone will find a way to solve a problem.
 
dazedgonebye said:
😀

Yea, but somehow, Scotty always got them through. 😀

No, you can't change physics, but you can find ways of dealing with it. The current sensor gets pretty creative in addressing the problem. Who knows what some guy lots smarter than you or I will come up with next?
In the long term, you never lose betting on technology coming through with a solution. If there's money to be had, someone will find a way to solve a problem.
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It's not a big problem, really. Every stop of vignetting needs one additional bit in color depth for correction. The new Nikon sensor could do it and still end up with > 12 bit color depth.

Roland.
 
SR1 said:
What's the obsession with full frame?
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For the convenience of those who use digital and film side by side, to save them having to carry (and buy!) two sets of lenses. To match the 21-35-75 set for my MP I need 16-28-50 for my M8, and even then, they don't quite match. If you have been using a lens for so long that you almost instinctively know its coverage, multiplication factors are tiresome in the extreme.

Anyway, Leica is aiming for full-frame.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
while others say, "It doesn't matter what camera you use," which is a bit like saying "It doesn't matter what you eat." It may not matter to them but it sure as hell matters to you.
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This is another recap of my "it all tastes like chicken" theory. Some people just plainly don't care, or have the tastebuds to know/appreciate the difference. Or the enzymes. 😉
 
SR1 said:
What's the obsession with full frame?
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What's the obsession with calling it an obsession?

If you had a Ferrari, and all of the sudden you're restricted to driving it on a mini golf course, asking for the appropriate road for your Ferrari's intended venue of use isn't an "obsession". It's a requirement.

Unless you own a Smartcar.
 
"...if you just want a picture buy a DSLR, if you want to capture life, and transform it into art buy a Leica."

This is perhaps a slight overstatement...
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No, it's pure wacko. 😀 The very notion that something you buy is going to transform either your craft or your life is, honestly, a delusion.

But I'm sure the marketing arm of every camera maker loves it when consumers think like that...
 
ferider said:
It's not a big problem, really. Every stop of vignetting needs one additional bit in color depth for correction. The new Nikon sensor could do it and still end up with > 12 bit color depth.
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This is not quite true, of course, because you run into trouble as soon as vignetting in low light gets close to the sensor's sensitivity threshold. If the sensor doesn't resolve the dark areas anymore, the fact that it resolves the brighter areas with an extra bit of precision doesn't save your day.

That said, the new Nikon sensor has quite good low-light characteristics. The main problem with such a software-based approach to vignetting is that there is no way to know what lens is mounted, especially since everybody and their mom paints black and white stripes on their Zeiss lenses.

Philipp
 
leicasniper said:
Because they will be able to at small cost in five years.
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No they won't. Chip area costs money.

I know that everybody thinks that CPUs and RAM and stuff have gotten a lot cheaper over time so sensors will, too. However, computer chips get cheaper mainly because you can build them smaller. You can't build a full-frame sensor any smaller than 24x36, so while their cost does scale down, it does so considerably slower than everything else in electronics.

There will never be a full-frame P&S camera and only a couple of APS-C P&S cameras.
 
SR1 said:
A full frame M with the same dimensions would be more computer than camera.
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The M8 already is. What's left of a camera in it? A mount, an optical rangefinder and a shutter. An M9 is likely to have all three of these, too, the rest is computing already today.

If you don't like that, digital photography is not for you.

Philipp
 
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