lens decisions?

[Roastchestnuts]

I have some back story before my questions - Leica is not new to me. not to be rude or pompus but I am not looking for my first lens or whatever. more looking for some input on lenses. I had an m10p and have had some great lenses including the 35mm steel rim reissue, v4 35mm summicron, 35mm v5 cron, 28 cron v1 and 28 summaron to name a few. I have regrettably sold all of these lenses and camera to help with a house down payment. Since my wife and I bought the house I had a brief stent with a hasselblad 907x 50mp because I thought I would like it more than I did. I am trying to get back into leica. you all probibly think I am crazy but I bought an m8.2 because I have always wanted one since I remember seeing one in collage when they were relatively new. I really think its one of the most beautiful looking leica digitals even though its a digital dinosaur. Eventually I will get another m10 or a mp240 or something for more professional work. For now as a fun everyday cary the leica m8.2 has been awesome. Its really gotten me back with the love of photography. I don't know if its the fact that its a million digital years old or the ccd sensor but the m8 magic is real. I have more fun with it than I ever did with my m10p. I read a good analogy for the m8 - The m8 is a film camera trying to be digital where the m10 was a digital camera trying to be a film camera. some how this reads true to me. I know the m8 is completely 100% a redesigned camera and not a film camera. Also I do think the m10 is the first digital M to be a no compromise digital M. I digress back to the m8.2 - I have been using it with a 3.5cm nikkor adapted with a amadeo adapter. its been great but I do want to get another good Leica lens. In the past I have been a 28 or 35mm guy but weirdly I have been really enjoying the 35mm on the m8. It has been really great. its weird because the crop makes it a wide 50mm. like a 46.55mm.

Here is where my question is: I really just want to buy one lens that I can be happy with that will be great on any of the digital m cameras. I would love to just keep it for as long as I am taking pictures. I thought (in another thread I talked about it) that I would want a 28 or 24 with the crop sensor m8.2 but now I am thinking if I upgrade or get another digital m in the future I will want a more standard wide like a 28 or 35. The nikkor 3.5 is the only thing I have been shooting with since I got the m8 and its been great so IDK if 28 is really the one to get. flip side is I know I like 28 on full frame. I plan on shooting the lens on film some too. I have a couple of finders for my m3. the 28mm Slooz and a 35mm leica finders.

I do like some character in my lenses.

There are 7 lenses that I am looking into at and my thoughts:
35mm summilux FLE v1 - worried about how big it is but from what I have read its a great lens if you only want 1 lens. seems to be a great all arounder.
28mm summilux m - most expensive lens here but is one of my dream lenses. will have to get rid of some of my gear and its bigger than the FLE.
28mm summicron v1 - I loved this lens on my m10p but dont know about it being a the One lens I have for M.
35mm summicron v3 - Seems like a real sleeper for a good price. but also might leave me lusting for somthing else...
35mm v1 summicron with goggles. - I have a m3 that I shoot film with often and I have had a 35mm summaron with goggles and got along with it. If memory serves it was pretty goofy using it on the m9 I had. Closer focus than any of the other options though.
35mm summicron v4 - I have had one. loved the rendering but didn't think the build was all that great compared to other leica lenses.
35mm summilux v2 - I had the steel rim re issue and really didnt like it. So idk on this one? I have the series 7 filter hood that will fit this lens and it might be really fun on the m8.2. Prices seem to have come down a little but since the steel rim is more available. another downside is the 1 meter focusing on this one.

Let me know what your vote is. Help me narrow it down. I want to pick something up before the end of November.

The shots below were taken with the m8.2 and my nikkor 3.5cm f2.5. this lens is pretty sharp but feel it could be better. it is 100% more of a character lens. and If you all have never used an amedeo adapter, it makes the focus to infiniti reversed so getting muscle memory down has been kinda weird on this one.


Side note: its crazy how close this m8.2 gets to looking like a roll of trix.

 

[Ororaro]

My most honest opinion, and funnily it’s not in your list: 35mm summilux asph (pre-fle).

None of the silly wide open glow, sharp theoughout, and has character ala 35mm summilux AA.
The focus and handling are super smooth. Alll in all, a seemless lens in handling with great results in sharpness and color.

When I was into Kodachrome until its end, I didn’t use my summilux pre-asph 35, I definitely favored the asph. Here we are almost fifteen years later and I congratulate myself on that move.

 

[Richard G]

If you don’t want pay off your mortgage faster by getting a ZM F2.8 C Biogon 35, then my vote is for the 28 Summicron v1. I have always loved the shots here and on Flickr taken with that lens. Hard to see anyone being unhappy with it and finding any good reason to upgrade.

 

[Godfrey]

I can't speak for any of the lenses on your list since I have no experience with any of them.

35mm: My one and only 35mm lens is a 1972 Summilux 35mm f/1.4. I would never trade it for any other 35mm lens. It produces beautiful photographs. I had DAG add the six bit code for it. I've used it on my film Ms, the M9, the M-P 240, the M-D 262, and now both the M10-R and M10 Monochrom. It is the original Walter Mandler design, and it's perfect for my uses just the way it is.

28mm: I had a Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 and didn't like it at all. I have a V Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5 which is superb on film, only so-so on digital capture. Following those two, I bought a Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH ... excellent, precise performance, but it felt characterless to me. I traded that for a new Summaron-M 28mm f/5.6 ... That's the best 28mm lens I've owned, works beautifully on both digital (M10-R, M10 Mono) and film bodies; lots of lovely character and beautiful photographs. Another lens I'll never sell.

Personally, I don't see the "magic" in the M8 or M9. Only borrowed an M8 briefly and it didn't thrill me. I bought an M9 and made many photos with it ... it had some interesting quirks but didn't think it particularly advantageous to my photography. When its sensor died, the M-P 240 replacement was a much better camera, the M-D 262 ... selling it was a mistake; wish I still had it. The M10 Mono surpasses all the others I've had, including the M10-R (which is the second best performing digital M body I've had).

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't find that others experiences are all that valuable when I'm evaluating what lens or body I'm going to buy. I've always found that buying something and working with it is the only way to know what works for me.

G

 

[Richard G]

OP has had the Summaron M 5.6. I agree with Godfrey it is a wonderful, characterful and tiny lens. I wish the bloody lens cap had been designed to cap the lens instead of being a little alarm as it so often clatters onto the pavement. I've gone months and months with that on my M9-P. Walked along the river this morning with it. Took a camera but not one shot. Tough call for one's only Leica lens though, especially on an older M digital with moderate high ISO performance even compared to film. My Mandler Summilux 35 is glued to the Monochrom....

 

[Roastchestnuts]

OP has had the Summaron M 5.6. I agree with Godfrey it is a wonderful, characterful and tiny lens. I wish the bloody lens cap had been designed to cap the lens instead of being a little alarm as it so often clatters onto the pavement. I've gone months and months with that on my M9-P. Walked along the river this morning with it. Took a camera but not one shot. Tough call for one's only Leica lens though, especially on an older M digital with moderate high ISO performance even compared to film. My Mandler Summilux 35 is glued to the Monochrom....

I would love a summaron again but it would have to be later. (i did see a good deal on one recently). I have actually owned it 2 times. first time I owned it I had my mp240. I loved it. but some annoyances got big for me. 1 that cap. It fell off in the car a coupe of times and eventually I left it off. I think the first summaron was a portugul one. I ended up selling it because I wanted another lens un fortunutly. then 2 years later I bought it again. lost the cap for it and then I sold it for the steel rim that time. funny enough the cap turned up in the move to the new house. It was in the couch. So I have a summaron metal cap floating around somewhere. One thing I really really hate about the lens is the non standard filter size 34mm? what the heck. but also that leica does not make one for it.

but all in all I would have another eventually. just not now. I also would not mind trying to find a thread mount one. It also was really fun on the m3 btw.

Witch 35mm summilux is the mandler designed one? Is that the vII?

 

[Roastchestnuts]

I can't speak for any of the lenses on your list since I have no experience with any of them.

35mm: My one and only 35mm lens is a 1972 Summilux 35mm f/1.4. I would never trade it for any other 35mm lens. It produces beautiful photographs. I had DAG add the six bit code for it. I've used it on my film Ms, the M9, the M-P 240, the M-D 262, and now both the M10-R and M10 Monochrom. It is the original Walter Mandler design, and it's perfect for my uses just the way it is.

28mm: I had a Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 and didn't like it at all. I have a V Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5 which is superb on film, only so-so on digital capture. Following those two, I bought a Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH ... excellent, precise performance, but it felt characterless to me. I traded that for a new Summaron-M 28mm f/5.6 ... That's the best 28mm lens I've owned, works beautifully on both digital (M10-R, M10 Mono) and film bodies; lots of lovely character and beautiful photographs. Another lens I'll never sell.

Personally, I don't see the "magic" in the M8 or M9. Only borrowed an M8 briefly and it didn't thrill me. I bought an M9 and made many photos with it ... it had some interesting quirks but didn't think it particularly advantageous to my photography. When its sensor died, the M-P 240 replacement was a much better camera, the M-D 262 ... selling it was a mistake; wish I still had it. The M10 Mono surpasses all the others I've had, including the M10-R (which is the second best performing digital M body I've had).

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't find that others experiences are all that valuable when I'm evaluating what lens or body I'm going to buy. I've always found that buying something and working with it is the only way to know what works for me.

G

I had a breif stent with a voigtlander 28mm too. It was ok. It did not render as smoothly I thought as a leica lens. I have heard about the v2 ultron being really good and comparable to the summicron v1 28. infact if I end up with a leica 35 I might buy that voigtlander. I have had the summaron and really liked it but I would need somthing faster as well.

Camerastore west has a md262 that I almost went for before this m8.2. I just could not justify the 5000 price for a body. I can sorta do that for a lens maybe? idk thats a lot of dough. I guess if you really think about it I need to call my self out. all these lenses cost a lot of dough...

to each is own on the camera. I really do love it. It has brought some joy in photography and for me that is huge I have been stuck in a creative rut for a year or two now just not happy with my digital stuff. I probably would have been just as happy with the m9 if I am being honest. I dont think any of the other digital Ms would have brought me here though. Like I said I may get another digital M in the future to shoot along side this one. Probibly a m262 or m10. I dont think I will be able to afford the m11 for some time. And I really think the m10 does not have any compromises. I had one and it was good. Not sure why I sold it. I don't particularly miss it or wish I had never sold it though. Honestly I think If I were to skip buying a lens, I would get a m246 monochrom.

but the quirks the m8 has I love. Just not snap shot mode... what a stupid thing that is. I think as a guy who shoots lots of film this m8 feels more like a film camera. IDK how to describe it. It may just be that I really like the camera. I dont really have any huge qualms about the camera. I dont like having to buy the ir cut filters.

 

[Richard G]

I would love a summaron again but it would have to be later. (i did see a good deal on one recently). I have actually owned it 2 times. first time I owned it I had my mp240. I loved it. but some annoyances got big for me. 1 that cap. It fell off in the car a coupe of times and eventually I left it off. I think the first summaron was a portugul one. I ended up selling it because I wanted another lens un fortunutly. then 2 years later I bought it again. lost the cap for it and then I sold it for the steel rim that time. funny enough the cap turned up in the move to the new house. It was in the couch. So I have a summaron metal cap floating around somewhere. One thing I really really hate about the lens is the non standard filter size 34mm? what the heck. but also that leica does not make one for it.

but all in all I would have another eventually. just not now. I also would not mind trying to find a thread mount one. It also was really fun on the m3 btw.

Witch 35mm summilux is the mandler designed one?

Godfrey referred to it: the Summilux 35 from the early 1960s through to the mid 70s was a Walter Mandler design. Tiny lens. Very straight. But the maddening Leica 'glow' wide open. Some like it. Me not so much. But the black one is light and compact and terrific stopped down. So why do I have it if I don't use f1.4? Because I wanted it.

 

[Roastchestnuts]

I had a breif stent with a voigtlander 28mm too. It was ok. It did not render as smoothly I thought as a leica lens. I have heard about the v2 ultron being really good and comparable to the summicron v1 28. infact if I end up with a leica 35 I might buy that voigtlander. I have had the summaron and really liked it but I would need somthing faster as well.

Camerastore west has a md262 that I almost went for before this m8.2. I just could not justify the 5000 price for a body. I can sorta do that for a lens maybe? idk thats a lot of dough.

to each is own on the camera. I really do love it. It has brought some joy in photography and for me that is huge. I probibly would have been just as happy with the m9 if I am being honest. but the quirks the m8 has I love. Just not snap shot mode... what a stupid thing that is. I think as a guy who shoots lots of film this m8 feels more like it in the lower resolution maybe. but I know this camra will not last for ever so thats why I decided to focus on a great lens that I will just keep. Closest I came to that was my 28mm summicron v1 actually. loved that one.

 

[Roastchestnuts]

My most honest opinion, and funnily it’s not in your list: 35mm summilux asph (pre-fle).

None of the silly wide open glow, sharp theoughout, and has character ala 35mm summilux AA.
The focus and handling are super smooth. Alll in all, a seemless lens in handling with great results in sharpness and color.

When I was into Kodachrome until its end, I didn’t use my summilux pre-asph 35, I definitely favored the asph. Here we are almost fifteen years later and I congratulate myself on that move.

I thought about that but I hate to say that I really really hate that hood design. but I can get passed that. do you have any rendering examples? I am sure I can find it on fliker though.

 

[wlewisiii]

Good luck with your choice, I'd rather get one of the Canon LTM 35's, probably the 35/1.8 again long before I'd get any of those.

But as it stands I'm far happier with my Kobalux 28/3.5 or my Nikkor 28/3.5 when I want to do wide on my M 240.

 

[Roastchestnuts]

Godfrey referred to it: the Summilux 35 from the early 1960s through to the mid 70s was a Walter Mandler design. Tiny lens. Very straight. But the maddening Leica 'glow' wide open. Some like it. Me not so much. But the black one is light and compact and terrific stopped down. So why do I have it if I don't use f1.4? Because I wanted it.

I love the images I have seen from this lens. I could never get my steel rim to look that way though. It is one of the more affordable options on my list too.

 

[Godfrey]

Walter Mandler did the design of the first Summilux 35mm and that design was used through at least v2 (v1 '61-'66, v2 '67-95, then you get into the ASPH generations). V2 eliminated the goggles. Mine is from 1972 by serial number.


Leica M-P 240 + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2 (1972)

I had the second generation Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2. It simply wasn't at all sharp until f/4 at least, so why have a big heavy lens rather than the superb Color-Skopar 28/3.5? If there's a newer revision, maybe that's better. Dunno.

The current Summaron-M 28/5.6 is just wonderful. Lens cap? I fit a filter and the lens hood, don't bother with the lens cap unless I'm storing the lens. Yes, 34mm filters ... ugh. I had to hunt, found Yellow and Yellow-Green from 1953 Leitz stock, and then an outfit in the UK made me deep green, orange, red, and blue (by cutting down a larger modern filter and fitting into a slim 34mm ring). There's also a Heliopan or B+W 34->39 mm adapter if you dont care to use the hood.

I've had a lot of Leica Ms over the past 50 years, both film and digital. All are slightly different, but none have any particular "magic" (aka: curious flaws) that makes one stand out over the others. M8 and M9 had too many of these eccentricities; M 240 got it all together, and the M10 slimmed the digital models down and feel a bit nicer in the hand. The M10 Monochrom has the most outstanding sensor, to me, followed by the M-D 262 (with its superb simplicity) and then the M10-R. Haven't touched an M11 yet, maybe someday. But they're all more alike than different in my hands ... I barely think about the camera or lens after buying, and concentrate on the photos I can make with them. 🙂

G

 

[Roastchestnuts]

Walter Mandler did the design of the first Summilux 35mm and that design was used through at least v2 (v1 '61-'66, v2 '67-95, then you get into the ASPH generations). V2 eliminated the goggles. Mine is from 1972 by serial number.


Leica M-P 240 + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2 (1972)

I had the second generation Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2. It simply wasn't at all sharp until f/4 at least, so why have a big heavy lens rather than the superb Color-Skopar 28/3.5? If there's a newer revision, maybe that's better. Dunno.

The current Summaron-M 28/5.6 is just wonderful. Lens cap? I fit a filter and the lens hood, don't bother with the lens cap unless I'm storing the lens. Yes, 34mm filters ... ugh. I had to hunt, found Yellow and Yellow-Green from 1953 Leitz stock, and then an outfit in the UK made me deep green, orange, red, and blue (by cutting down a larger modern filter and fitting into a slim 34mm ring). There's also a Heliopan or B+W 34->39 mm adapter if you dont care to use the hood.

I've had a lot of Leica Ms over the past 50 years, both film and digital. All are slightly different, but none have any particular "magic" (aka: curious flaws) that makes one stand out over the others. M8 and M9 had too many of these eccentricities; M 240 got it all together, and the M10 slimmed the digital models down and feel a bit nicer in the hand. The M10 Monochrom has the most outstanding sensor, to me, followed by the M-D 262 (with its superb simplicity) and then the M10-R. Haven't touched an M11 yet, maybe someday. But they're all more alike than different in my hands ... I barely think about the camera or lens after buying, and concentrate on the photos I can make with them. 🙂

G

I appreciate the photo that really helps. the sharpness on that lens seems way better than my steel rim was. Maybe I just never hit critical focus with mine. I saw a infinity lock non goggled 35mm summilux for a good deal recently that I should have just bought.

For what its worth this is the voigtlander 28 I was talking about. voigtlander 28mm ultron. I think you are talking about the prev version of it? this lens is smaller than the summicron v1 I think. and 39mm filter threds.

yeah I had the heliopan 34mm filter for my summaron. Again it was a fun and fantastic lens but I always thought it as a lens to throw on to change it up. I should have kept it though. It is one of 2 lenses I bought and sold then bought again. Unfortunutly I sold it a 2nd time. The other lens is the 50mm Elmar m f2.8 from 2007. Its very good. and underrated. might be the cheepest leica branded lens you can buy in Mmount? The elmar M is the one I didnt sell. when I sold a bunch of things. And the Modern 50mm elmar DOES collapse into digital bodys without issues. I feel like there is lots of miss information there on this lens.

Honestly the only camera I ever regret selling that is a leica camera was my m6tt .85. I agree with you concentrating on the photos is key. why I downsized the film Ms and only kept my favorite the single stroke m3 from 1961. Its why I am trying to find one lens that will be good with most things. But I do think the right gear for you helps. Like a favorite paint brush, or wrench (if your are a mechanic). The only thing I really actually miss on my m10p is the fact I could shoot at 3200 iso without worrying about color shifts and banding. but even then I never really shoot that high in ISO anyway.

 

[Ororaro]

I thought about that but I hate to say that I really really hate that hood design. but I can get passed that. do you have any rendering examples? I am sure I can find it on fliker though.

The 12466 Hood makes it an insanely beautiful combo, but very expensive as well, with a price tag north of 2000$ for the hood alone 😅

The good news is that the summicron 28mm v1 and the summilux asph pre-fle can accept the same hoods. If you like the 28mm square hood, you can use it on the 35.

When the fle came out, all the discussions were about how undistinguishable from the pre-fle it was… therefore I wouldn’t sweat it too much, both are excellent.


Here’s one shot with the pre-fle

 

[Godfrey]

I appreciate the photo that really helps. the sharpness on that lens seems way better than my steel rim was. Maybe I just never hit critical focus with mine. I saw a infinity lock non goggled 35mm summilux for a good deal recently that I should have just bought.

For what its worth this is the voigtlander 28 I was talking about. voigtlander 28mm ultron. I think you are talking about the prev version of it? this lens is smaller than the summicron v1 I think. and 39mm filter threds.

yeah I had the heliopan 34mm filter for my summaron. Again it was a fun and fantastic lens but I always thought it as a lens to throw on to change it up. I should have kept it though. It is one of 2 lenses I bought and sold then bought again. Unfortunutly I sold it a 2nd time. The other lens is the 50mm Elmar m f2.8 from 2007. Its very good. and underrated. might be the cheepest leica branded lens you can buy in Mmount? The elmar M is the one I didnt sell. when I sold a bunch of things. And the Modern 50mm elmar DOES collapse into digital bodys without issues. I feel like there is lots of miss information there on this lens.

Honestly the only camera I ever regret selling that is a leica camera was my m6tt .85. I agree with you concentrating on the photos is key. why I downsized the film Ms and only kept my favorite the single stroke m3 from 1961. Its why I am trying to find one lens that will be good with most things. But I do think the right gear for you helps. Like a favorite paint brush, or wrench (if your are a mechanic). The only thing I really actually miss on my m10p is the fact I could shoot at 3200 iso without worrying about color shifts and banding. but even then I never really shoot that high in ISO anyway.

The Ultron you pointed to is a totally different lens from the one i had. It's an ASPH, and a new revision. I know nothing about it. 😉

My Hektor 135/4.5 in M-mount is about the cheapest Leica lens I ever bought: $180. And though it's disparaged quite a lot, it is actually quite decent performer, which i put down to the old RF mount for it. I use the Visoflex 020 to focus it and it's quite sharp when critically focused.

I replaced the M6TTL I sold in 2003 just recently with another, but this one with the 0.85x viewfinder. That's a delightful M body.

But we digress. The Summilux 35 photo i posted was made at a fairly large lens opening and shows all the beautiful blur rendering they're famous for.. stop down to f/5.6-8 and it's a razor sharp performer. Permanently not for sale!! 😀

Onwards, G

 

[Bill Blackwell]

28mm Summilux M
Why? It's the one you really want.
Personally I think it's overkill for the M8 - I'd think the Summicron would be a better choice. It's only a stop slower, smaller than the Summilux, and < half the price on the used market.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

35 is new 50. Ok, but not wide enough often.
28 is mobile phone pictures, but more resolution and nothing really else.

Lens character on digital is not always something to be desired. Nor it is prominent, except old lenses weakness, which is bunch of defects,
not a character.

 

[boojum]

There are a lot of good 35's, Canons, CV's and others. I have both and like them. On my 8.2 I especially like the Canon 28mm F/2.8 LTM. But at the end-up it is going to be you not the lens.

 

[Richard G]

35 is new 50. Ok, but not wide enough often.
28 is mobile phone pictures, but more resolution and nothing really else.

Lens character on digital is not always something to be desired. Nor it is prominent, except old lenses weakness, which is bunch of defects,
not a character.

I see character on M9 with three of my modern Zeiss ZM lenses, the C Sonnar 50, of course, but also the C Biogon 35 2.8, and the C Biogon 21 f4.5. (And on Monochrom M)