Canon LTM Lenses for Mirror Box 2

[Sonnar2]

I was looking for that for a while and just managed to get a Mirror Box 2 (for CANON 7) at a reasonable price, but actually have no lenses for it. Anyone have experience using the mirror box lenses, i.e. 2.5/135 or 3.5/200?
Is it true that the 2/100 has a head to be unscrewed off the mounting and used with the mirror-box?

cheers Frank

 

[CanonRFinder]

HI Frank,

Never thought of doing that but yes the 100m f/2 lens head attached its R-A Lens Focusing Adapter (LFA) will fit onto a MB2. When mounted on a 7, 7s or 7sz model camera body but it is then becomes a type of close up lens. Haven't worked out the actual distance the lens covers but the DOF is not much but as a tele lens...nope.

The 135mm f/2.5 as well as the the 200mm f/3.5 M lenses are specially made just for use on the MB2 an earlier 200mm f/3.5 LTM lens was used on the MB1.

The lens head of the 85mm f/1.9 , 100mm f/3.5 and 135mm f/3.5 mounted in there respetive LFA's should also fit the MB2. Will have to try that out one day.

 

[harry01562]

One of the problems is finding the Lens head adapter, and the appropriate individual heads for the lenses. I have only found 2 of the heads (85/1.9 and 135/3.5) to use on my adapter. Most of them are probably unidentified and languishing in boxes someplace. They are also of use when converting the RF lenses for use on the SLR's, but that's like bringing a Pepsi for lunch in a Coke bottling plant.
When found, they are beautifully machined, very well made units.
That looks like a very nice MB2. Hope you got it with the correct dual cable release, as those seem to be hard to find, as well

Harry

 

[Sonnar2]

Harry, are you sure that the MB2 needs the dual cable release? AFAIK only the MB1 needs it. Like I understand the mechanism, the arm of the MB2 triggers the mirror and camera release, maybe lens diaphragm as well. I read somewhere that the MB2 has the same mounting as the Canonflex-/FL-lenses, so it could be the case that all of these lenses can be used limited for close focus images.

I'm not sure if I really can manage to buy a M-lens but they do occur on ebay from time to time, i.e. the 3.5/200. About the other adapters; I've never noticed one. Of course this a crazy item not for real use... 😀 Whoever wants to see how the 2.5/135 works can find a cheap FL-mount version of this lens in the bay every week, I have a quite nice example...

 

[harry01562]

Frank, you could be correct on the cable release. I've never handled on of the MB2 units, as they were always too pricey, and unlikely to be used by me.

The adapters seem to be scarce, as I mentioned. I bought the "easy" one, the 135, along with the entire focusing adapter, some time ago. I also picked up the adapter head only for the 85/1.9 on eBay a year or so ago. I've only seen one or two others offered there. The adapters themselves don't look like much. They are just machined tubes that attach to the F/A, with a screw mount that the lens head mounts on. They are engraved inside with the lens info, but do not have the Canon name anywhere. The R-A focusing head has the chrome ring familiar from FL/FD lenses, with full ID, and accepts any of the heads.

I thought there was only one left to look for, but evidently there are 2 heads available for the 100mm lenses. The 85 works only with the chrome 1.9, and the 135 works with the chrome 3.5, both of which have a lens head that unscrews. I presume the adapters for the 100mm work on the same principle.

Interesting items, designed for the early users of the Canonflex cameras, probably meant as a stop-gap measure until Canon had lenses available in the proper "R" mount. They did the same thing later with the EOS adapter meant for the "big whites", the loong telephotos used by so many pros.

Harry

 

[harry01562]

follow up w/photo

follow up w/photo

As a follow up to the F/A story, I'm posting a photo of the F/A itself, and the 2 different lens heads that I own. There you can plainly see that the heads just have the lens data, and no makers name on them. Seperated from their box, they could turn up in almost any batch of odds and ends.

Harry

 

[harry01562]

sure, Harry, forget the photo........

Here it is:

 

[jlw]

When you guys are talking about the "100mm f/2 lens head," do you mean that the optical section of the regular 100/2 unscrews from the focusing mount (like the original 90mm f/2 Summicron did)?

Or do you mean that Canon made a separate 100mm f/2 lens head only, with no focusing mount?

I ask this question because I own a regular RF-coupled 100/2 and there doesn't seem to be any obvious way of removing the "head" from the rest of it. Just curious...

 

[John Shriver]

The heads of the normal RF lenses unscrewed. The most common lens to demonstrate this is the black/chrome 100/3.5. I'd presume the black 100/3.5 does the same. Similarly, I think it's only the black 135/3.5 whose head comes off, I've seen no sign of this on my chrome 135/3.5.

Not sure if the 100/2.0 has a removable head.

 

[harry01562]

The only lens I can speak to is the Canon 135/3.5. There, it is only the chrome lens that is involved, not the later black lens. The chrome definitely seperates rather easily into the entire lens group at the front, and an empty tube that provides the proper distance from the film plane at the rear. AFAIK, the later black lens of the same design, optically, does unscrew, but it does not want to screw onto the lens head. The chrome lens has a different mechanical design, and screws on smoothly. I also think I read something, someplace, that it was the chrome that was used.

I also found the chrome 100/3.5 unscrews into optics/tube, similar to the 135. Again, the black/chrome 100 does not want to unscrew. That's what lead me to believe the Canon (not Serenar) models were designed with focusing tube and optical head that screwed together.

I don't own one of the 100/2, and I envy anyone who does. I believe it was only released in a late, black style. That's why, I guess, that I assumed it was not one of the usable lens head type, and did not unscrew. I have a couple of the manuals from the period, and I will check them and see if there is any further information available in them. Meanwhile, any other owners of the 100/2 that can speak of one that does unscrew? Any owners of the 100/2 adapter?

Harry

 

[Sonnar2]

I don't have the 2/100 but remeber I've read somewhere it could be used with the MB2. For one reason this makes sence to me: it's longer than the 1.8/85, providing room for a mirror (I guess)
But the diameter is bigger than the 3.5/135 so I guess it the head (if removable at all) will not fit in the same focussing mount.

 

[harry01562]

further clarification, I hope

further clarification, I hope

I found the following information in the Paul Jonas book titled "Canon Canonet Canonflex Manual. Checking the 1961 and 1971 printings, they appear to be identical except for a smaller format on the later edition. In chapter 4 on lenses, the following info:

"Focusing adapter and lens head adapters
These are used when a Canon screw mount lens with detachable head should be used with the Canonflex.
Any "RA" type Focusing Adapter in combination with the appropriate Lens Head Adapter (8519, 1002 and 13535) can be used to convert a screw mount Canon 85mm/1.9, or a 100mm/2, or a 135mm/3.5 lens for use with the Canonflex.
The Focusing Adapter "RB" - 10035 should be used when the Canon 100mm/3.5 must be attached to the Canonflex.
When using any type of adapter the lens head must be removed, of course, from its original lens barrel."

I also have a Sept. 1959 Canadian Price List that shows the following:

85mm f:2 I, Lens Head with Focusing Adapter R-A @ 139.50
100mm f:2, Lens Head with Focusing Adapter R-A @ 179.50
100mm f:3.5, Lens Head with Focusing Adapter R-B @ 88.00

The focusing adapters are also listed seperately, with the appropriate heads,
all 3 R-A type @ 35.00, and the R-B @ 28.00.

Note that the 135/3.5 is not shown above, as there was an "R" lens available in that focal length.

This would seem to indicate that the adapters were designed and released specifically for use with the Canonflex, as Canon had an otherwise limited lens line available for that camera on its release. This does not mean that they could not be also used with the MB2, but I think that would involve another adapter, as the RA/RB use a Canonflex mount, and the MB2 has a mount similar to the one on the 50/0.95, AFAIK. I do know that a promotional item on the Model 7 mentions the MB2 and lenses from 200mm and longer.

It's amazing the amount of digging that is needed to pull this information together, and still not be certain that it's complete and correct.

Harry

 

[Sonnar2]

Harry,
this makes perfect sence for 1960's RF users who wanted to use their "old" RF lenses with brand-new Canonflex SLR's, not vice versa... To prevent investment.
When I'll receive the MB2 the first thing I do is test it with the FL 1.8/85 and 2.5/135. I will report which distances can be reached with these lenses. If anyone see a Canon "M-lens" please gimme a shout...

Frank

 

[harry01562]

last (?) notes on the adapters

last (?) notes on the adapters

The following was found in a B&H Systems Equipment catalog dated April 1968:

"The chrome finish Canon 85mm f/1.9, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/3.5 and the 100mm f/3.5 are screw mount lenses with detachable heads. With the use of the proper focusing adapter and lens head adapter, these lenses can be used on the bayonet-mount Canonflex cameras.
The lens head adapter used seperately also adapts their corresponding lens to the Bellows R. (Without the Bellows Adapter R).

Focusing Adapter RB and Lens Head Adapter for 100/3.5 (chrome) @ 34.95
Focusing Adapter RA and Lens Head Adapter for 85/1.9 (chrome) @ 37.50
Focusing Adapter and Lens Head Adapter for 100/2 (black) @ 37.50
Focusing Adapter and Lens Head Adapter for 135/3.5 (chrome) @ 37.50"

That would seem to indicate that only specific lens heads could be used, as I indicated in the message above on the 135/3.5. The 100/2 in black is a spectacular lens from all reports, and is priced accordingly, on the rare occasions when I see one offered.

As a final note: I have the 100/3.5 black/chrome lens, and the head does not seem to be detachable. I've applied as much force as I'm willing to, and it is not moving. The others all removed with relatively small effort. Hooper, in his excellent series of articles in Viewfinder magazine indicates there are 2 types of this lens. Mine, with a distance scale in feet, is the type 1. The type 2, marketed from April 1958, with a slightly different mechanical design, has a dual feet/meter distance scale, and is apparently the one that unscrews for adapter useage. Just my luck, more GAS, now I "need" another lens to go with the RB and adapter that I don't have....

Harry

 

[harry01562]

Harry,
this makes perfect sence for 1960's RF users who wanted to use their "old" RF lenses with brand-new Canonflex SLR's, not vice versa... To prevent investment.
When I'll receive the MB2 the first thing I do is test it with the FL 1.8/85 and 2.5/135. I will report which distances can be reached with these lenses. If anyone see a Canon "M-lens" please gimme a shout...

Frank

I think you will probably have to use the Canon Adapter "B", but I may be incorrect. If you use a Bellows R with the 135 (and the 200/4.5, if you have one), it might make for an interesting view. I think this is all limited to close-up work.
With the M-lenses you can, of course, go to infinity. Hopefully, we can find you the 135 or the 200. I imagine the others will be difficult and expensive when found.

Harry

 

[CanonRFinder]

Just a few pics of the three lenses I have in my collection. The 135mm f/3.5 is the only one missing. Will have to look at my instruction sheets over the weekend but I know there is start and cut of numbers when the lens head could be removed and fitted to one of these adapters. The 85mm f/1.9 lens head is the last I have on record and is close to the final lens Canon mentioned in there instructions.

 

[CanonRFinder]

More pics

 

[harry01562]

Thanks, Peter, for the pics. It was particularly interesting to see the RB, as I now know what to look for, having never seen one of these before.

I'm adding pics of the 135/3.5 to complete the set. The first is an overall, the second shows the lens mounted on the lens head adapter, and the last is a view of the complete lens assebly, with the RA adapter also mounted. The chrome piece, of course, is the empty focusing tube of the lens.

Harry

 

[John Shriver]

For those who have lenses that "should" separate, and don't, perhaps someone did something to make the connection not come apart. On my 100/3.5, it's annoyingly easy to start unscrewing the lens head when you're just trying to turn the aperture to 3.5. So I could sympathize with someone who decided to put a little adhesive in there -- or who just jammed it on tight enough that the threads are frozen.

I'll have to try splitting my chrome 135/3.5, it sure would make for nice access to clean the rear element.

 

[harry01562]

Don't damage your 100/3.5

Don't damage your 100/3.5

I might mention again there are 2 types of the 100/3.5. They are both black/chrome, but the late model that has the detachable head has a dual focusing mount, marked in both meters and feet. The earlier model has only a scale marked in feet. I imagine damage could be caused by applying force to attempt to unscrew one of the earlier models.
It really doesn't take a lot of pressure on a normal lens, unless it has been tampered with, to "fix" the unscrewing.

Harry