Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.2 ASPH "1966" 2024

Here is a post from a Chinese photographer regarding chinese made lens. It matched some Sonnar Brain's impression.

" In my personal opinion, domestic lenses have essentially caught up with foreign lenses in some quantitative aspects (mainly Japanese and German brands), such as resolution and sharpness. However, there is still a noticeable gap in some experiential aspects that require accumulated expertise, such as coatings, bokeh, image sparkliness/transparency, and color reproduction—relatively abstract domains. For instance, Zeiss lenses still exhibit a strong creamy texture and a glass-like clarity. In contrast, many domestic lenses tend to display color shifts (often appearing slightly yellowish-green), dryness, and a plastic-like quality in image rendering.

Addressing these differences requires the accumulation of years of engineering experience and, in some cases, even the involvement of artists in the development process. Regardless of cost, time constraints, or other factors, I believe it is crucial to acknowledge and address these disparities to propel domestic lenses to greater strength and excellence. This way, the domestic market can continue to grow stronger and more competitive. While there are interesting aspects, such as color reproduction and creamy texture, in current manual lenses, like Laowa is getting better, there is still hope for the production of even better lenses. Ultimately, I hope for more cost-effective lens available, considering the financial constraints of many, and, from a national sentiment perspective, I aspire to witness the continued growth of the domestic industry."
 

F0.95. A Tale of Two Fifties.

I took my Daughter to the Skating Rink today, decided it's a good place to bring some Fast lenses. And the two fast lenses that have been waiting for comparison are the Canon 50mm F0.95 for the Canon 7 and the TTArtisans 50mm F0.95 for M-Mount. I have adapters to use both on my Nikon Z5. The...
www.rangefinderforum.com www.rangefinderforum.com

The TTArtisans 50/0.95 at $550 from Popflash compared with my Canon 50/0.95, $200 from Ebay. Latter- Some 20 years ago. Both on the Nikon Z5.
Used on an a Rangefinder camera: I can calibrate the TTArtisans from 1m to infinity, closer in to 0.7m needs a "Fudge Factor". This would require redesigning the RF cam of the lens to compensate for close distance, as was done with the Bertele Sonnar OR would require floating optics. My solution for use on an RF, just focus the RF slightly closer than what you would when below 1m.

The TTArtisans 50/0.95, 7Artisans 50/1.1, 7Art 75/1.25, Mitakon 90/1.5- all original designs. My collection of Chinese RF lenses. The 50/0.95 has Aspheric optics, the others- all spherical. I do not see the onion ring bokeh in the TTArt 50/0.95 that is so pronounced in the example images of the LLL "1966" lens. Maybe the "wiggle" is less in the 50/0.95 and the contour does not have big edge changes in it. Based on the example images of the LLL 50/1.2, and cost at $2k: they need to smooth out the optics. This is where the cost-savings technique used, whether the grinding is too coarse or it is using a coarsely formed mold rears it's ugly head.

The 7Art 75/1.25- great lens. Mitakon 90/1.5- good replacement for the Canon 85/1.5 now that it has achieved cult status. 7Artisans 50/1.1- good substitute for a Zunow 5cm F1.1, and cost what the latter did in the 1950s. TTArt 50/0.95: get the "special edition" version with a 62mm filter size for use on an RF. For mirrorless, does not matter. Now that you cannot find a Canon 50/0.95 for under $1,000- good substitute.
 
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LLL is using the same supply chains in China like other lens makers. If as LLL claimed use hand grind/polish aspherical elements, we can see two results from history, sample to sample variation, and high failure rate. If it is the former, who will get these less desirable/suboptimal quality lenses? There is no more IPO RFF special offer to take these and SN with death symbol. If the cost like other lens makers that can offer 50mm f1.1-0.9 at retail price ranged from $370-570, so the additional $1600+ is for the name connect with Leica or the IQ tax the buyer has to pay?
 
The extra cost- probably having a batch of custom glass made. Whether the aspherical optics are ground or molded, both are expensive processes for low-volume production. I can WAG that the aspherical surface for the 6/4 configuration has a greater "wiggle" (as my optical engineer called it) than the more modern lenses.

Are customers being ripped off for paying $2K for this type of lens? My take: it is an expensive and difficult lens to produce. It is not an optimal formula for economical fabrication Techniques. Most likely, the TTArtisans 50/0.95 is a better performer and gives more pleasing results. The 50/1.2 Nokton is the obvious choice of a top-performaing lens, small, sharp, and pleasing Bokeh. I like mine. Less than 1/2 the price of the LLL 50/1.2.
 
splitimageview said:
It's great to have all these options, who would have thought not all that long ago that there would be all these new M mount releases?
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For me the biggest surprise is the recent spate of LTM options from both Voigtlander and LLL.

It seemed that LTM had been totally forgotten about for a long time; according to the folks at Skyllaney, this is likely because LTM is surprisingly more difficult to machine than the M mount is. As someone who is far too fond of Barnacks, I'm happy to see that people are producing any lenses in this mount now - even if I still haven't bit the bullet on one (I think I'm waiting for the LLL Speed Panchro in LTM, which is apparently coming soon).
 
www.ebay.com

TTartisan 50mm F0.95 Lens Large Aperture for Leica M M6 M9 M10 M240 Camera Red | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TTartisan 50mm F0.95 Lens Large Aperture for Leica M M6 M9 M10 M240 Camera Red at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

TTArtisans is "in to" special editions for the 50/0.95, maybe parroting Leica on "special editions". The Titanium version with an edition of 2000 featured a 62mm filter size, which offers an advantage over the standard black and silver version. It ended up being sold for less than the regular ones. Then- TTartisans introduced a Red finish lens, edition of 500. Some sellers decided that special editions need to be priced much higher than the standard version to get attention. Three auctions by the same seller, USD $1799, GBP 999, and Can $1999. Same seller, same lens, 3 auctions with a low of ~$1250 converting from GBP to a high of $1799 USD. Ugly. Must be worth more. Like the Red Leica.

gmpphoto.blogspot.com

THE LATEST LEICA LIMITED EDITION - LEICA M TYP 262 RED ANODIZED FINISH

gmpphoto.blogspot.com gmpphoto.blogspot.com

Do not use this camera/lens combination around Bulls. But it does seem appropriate. Tax on horrible taste in camera fashion.
 
I met many Chinese photographers online, majority of them unable to see sites outside China, these who are able to use VPN can browse sites out of China, which is illegal in China. Here is screen shot he sent to me from bilibili.com, a replica of YouTube. The guy seems an official LLL marketing person. The comment section are kind of unfriendly

the first one said “ for God’s sake, please do not link it with Leica name it is just a domestic made lens
the second commented: it is plagiarism just like these who sell fake watches in GuangDong which claimed they are replica
the third: initial price $500 then overhyped to $700, 800, 1000, if in that price range why just get Zeiss or Summaron
The fourth: I simply look down that brand
the fifth: I can not believe what they asked for such a crudely made wannabe copy

well, Rayt or these who understand Chinese may able to confirm or give better translation.
 

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I've had decades of experience running projects that required hand-made prototypes, low-volume production, specialized materials, and high non-recurring engineering costs. I can respect the effort that goes into producing these lenses. On the LLL 50/1.2, based on the ugly onion-ring bokeh shown in the example images here on RFF: I would have sent them back to the drawing board and told to fix that problem. $2K to produce and sell it- can relate to that. Ugly Bokeh compared to other lenses costing a fraction as much- that is a deal killer.

The Chinese lenses that I own: I can see the cost-savings decisions that went into them. The 50/0.95: no floating optics, no close-range-corrected indexed cam. The others- all-spherical optics. Provide a user-tunable Cam. I respect those design decisions. I also respect the performance given by the lenses, which match or exceed the classic lenses they compare with. Look down my nose at them? That would be stupid and snobby.
 
That is really good advice, and I hope for the same. I see original design in the 7Art 50/1.1 that captures the super-speed Sonnar of the 1950s, but replaces the "filler glass" much like the C-Sonnar 50/1.5. The 7Art 75/1.25- I get great results from it, but required custom calibration of the cam. Again, price-performance trade-off. The TTart 50/0.95 is also an original design, but is price/performance compromise when compared with the 50/1 Nokton. Take the engineering effort that went into the LLL 50/1.2 and instead use it to create something original that is world-class, would gain a lot of respect.
 
yeah... I was thinking gold Leica for my retirement next month...

But I think will go with a Zf instead.

I have a Leica M3DS, going by the SN, made the same month I was born. I did buy a red soft-shutter release for it. It was cheap. Too Tacky?
 
Duofold RF said:
I met many Chinese photographers online, majority of them unable to see sites outside China, these who are able to use VPN can browse sites out of China, which is illegal in China. Here is screen shot he sent to me from bilibili.com, a replica of YouTube. The guy seems an official LLL marketing person. The comment section are kind of unfriendly

the first one said “ for God’s sake, please do not link it with Leica name it is just a domestic made lens
the second commented: it is plagiarism just like these who sell fake watches in GuangDong which claimed they are replica
the third: initial price $500 then overhyped to $700, 800, 1000, if in that price range why just get Zeiss or Summaron
The fourth: I simply look down that brand
the fifth: I can not believe what they asked for such a crudely made wannabe copy

well, Rayt or these who understand Chinese may able to confirm or give better translation.
Click to expand...

My Chinese language skills are limited to ordering from a menu in a restaurant and can only point. Still, it is clearly a replica and as long the products do not violate any intellectual property and people know what they are getting I have no beef with it. I was never interested in any of the Leica replicas and that is because I already own what I want to use and not tempted by whatever is available unless it’s unique.
 
Coldkennels said:
For me the biggest surprise is the recent spate of LTM options from both Voigtlander and LLL.

It seemed that LTM had been totally forgotten about for a long time; according to the folks at Skyllaney, this is likely because LTM is surprisingly more difficult to machine than the M mount is. As someone who is far too fond of Barnacks, I'm happy to see that people are producing any lenses in this mount now - even if I still haven't bit the bullet on one (I think I'm waiting for the LLL Speed Panchro in LTM, which is apparently coming soon).
Click to expand...

Exactly how I feel about having more LTM options, I bought the LLL collapsible 35mm, no issues with it and while it may cost 1.5 to 2x more than a comparable Canon 35/2 or 35/1.8, I have no complaints with the build quality or images I get out of it. It's nice to have more modern options out there and not have to worry about issues that come with buying old lenses. Buying "working lenses" on ebay only to have to disassemble them and regrease helicoids comes to mind, ugh, my experience buying some Canon LTM lenses last year...(at least the glass wasn't hazy and I learned more about lens disassembly)


Duofold RF said:
I met many Chinese photographers online, majority of them unable to see sites outside China, these who are able to use VPN can browse sites out of China, which is illegal in China. Here is screen shot he sent to me from bilibili.com, a replica of YouTube. The guy seems an official LLL marketing person. The comment section are kind of unfriendly

the first one said “ for God’s sake, please do not link it with Leica name it is just a domestic made lens
the second commented: it is plagiarism just like these who sell fake watches in GuangDong which claimed they are replica
the third: initial price $500 then overhyped to $700, 800, 1000, if in that price range why just get Zeiss or Summaron
The fourth: I simply look down that brand
the fifth: I can not believe what they asked for such a crudely made wannabe copy

well, Rayt or these who understand Chinese may able to confirm or give better translation.
Click to expand...

Chinese people are going to Chinese about their own country's products and be overly critical on it. Every time I read Chinese netizen translations, it just reminds me of my grandmother complaining about other Chinese people's cooking or appearance. Nothing will ever make them happy and they will always find something to nitpick
 
aw614 said:
Chinese people are going to Chinese about their own country's products and be overly critical on it. Every time I read Chinese netizen translations, it just reminds me of my grandmother complaining about other Chinese people's cooking or appearance. Nothing will ever make them happy and they will always find something to nitpick
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No grandma bashing please, I love my grandma .😀
There are more modern LTM options from Cosina as well as from these artisans. They were complaining the price is too high for such a domestic made lens. Chinese people are smart, they always want the best bang for the buck, the LLL 35mm collapsible is $1000 a copy, collapsible for a low profile 35mm is kind of overdone and unnecessary.
 
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Duofold RF said:
No grandma bashing please, I love my grandma .😀
There are more modern LTM options from Cosina as well as from these artisans. They were complaining the price is too high for such a domestic made lens. Chinese people are smart, they always want the best bang for the buck, the LLL 35mm collapsible is $1000 a copy, collapsible for a low profile 35mm is kind of overdone and unnecessary.
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I already know about the Vogitlander products, but they also have released more slower F2.8 lens. The fast Nokton 1.5 and the 35 F1.7 are also now 20 years old and they haven't gotten updated for LTM mounts. The 40mm is something I'd use, but the new 28mm is nice, but I haven't been able to get on with 28mm focal lengths

But that same mentality of wanting best bang for the buck leads to constant complaining about price to the point its irrational. And yes I feel I can say it because I grew up around it. I guess the point I am trying to make is Chinese people are kind of already self-biased against their own products, and while yes some of it is justified. Maybe the analogy is how some Americans feel about American cars due to the malaise era.

I didn't pay 1000 for my LLL collapsible and it in LTM mount at the time last spring 2023 was significantly cheaper than the rigid version in LTM,. The People are paying what the market will bear so I don't fault them at all. If sales start to drop a lot then yeah they priced themselves out.
 
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