jaffa_777
Established
I wrote this in another thread but thought it woud get more attention here. I am about to buy a Fuji GW690III and am aware it has no meter built in.
Having used only cameras with in built meters I have some questions. What type of light meter do you use with this camera since it doesn't have an in built meter. I have a sekonik L358 which I use for measuring studio flash and ambient light amd it works really well. But how do you go about measing a natural scene for exposure with light, shadow and reflective light. There are always more than a few stops deifference between the lightest part and the darkest part of a scene and have I have always wondered how to meter for this. Wouldn't it be innacurate with a light meter measing the only ambient light? Are there different types of meters avaiable? What is working for you?
Cheers
Having used only cameras with in built meters I have some questions. What type of light meter do you use with this camera since it doesn't have an in built meter. I have a sekonik L358 which I use for measuring studio flash and ambient light amd it works really well. But how do you go about measing a natural scene for exposure with light, shadow and reflective light. There are always more than a few stops deifference between the lightest part and the darkest part of a scene and have I have always wondered how to meter for this. Wouldn't it be innacurate with a light meter measing the only ambient light? Are there different types of meters avaiable? What is working for you?
Cheers
dexdog
Veteran
There are lots of meters available, but if you will be working outdoors in contrasty situations, a meter that is capable of measuring incident light would be your best bet. My favorite meters that measure incident light are the Gossen DigiSix and Gossen LunaSix F (also marketed as the VarioSix in Europe and other places). The Sekonic 308S is another good one, and a bit cheaper than the VarioSix/LunaSix option. In addition, a lot of old meters, such as the classic Gossen Luna Pro measure both reflected and incident light.
One advantage of newer meters like the LunaSix/Variosix is that one can measure several points, and the meter will display the range of these measurements in EVs. Very helpful when figuring out what to expose for, or how to bracket your shots.
You might also search the threads on RFF for meter recommendations, because I know that the subject is discussed occasionally.
One advantage of newer meters like the LunaSix/Variosix is that one can measure several points, and the meter will display the range of these measurements in EVs. Very helpful when figuring out what to expose for, or how to bracket your shots.
You might also search the threads on RFF for meter recommendations, because I know that the subject is discussed occasionally.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
Use the incident dome, and put it in the same sort of light as your subject. Make sure to angle the dome so that there are a similar amount of highlight and shadow areas on the dome as are on your subject, and take a reading. This will yeild proper exposure. The best thing to do is place the meter in front of the subject, point the dome directly at the camera, and take a reading. Ambient light measurement is a fine way to get the correct exposure. Reflected readings are all balanced to give a neutral (roughly 18% grey) tone, so unless you really know what you are doing it easier for a reflective reading to give you an inaccurate exposure. Ambient meters measure the amount of light present, so shots done at the indicated settings will show true tone, i.e. correct exposure. The only time you can get into trouble this way is if the contrast range exceeds what your film/sensor can capture. In these cases, you have to adust your settings to show more highlight or shadow, and let the other areas loose detail.
Use your meter the same way you do in the studio, only measuring available ambient light, rather than strobe, and you should be fine. Yes, there are lots of meters available out there, but I find the best and most useful ones are ambient meters, and you have a fine one. The only other kind of meter I use is a 1 degree spot meter. If I'm going to use a reflective meter, I want the most accurate, smallest area I can measure- knowing the light will be roughly the same, I read several areas to guage correct highlight and shadow readings, and calculate my exposure from there.
(Edit for grammar, spelling, and content)
Use your meter the same way you do in the studio, only measuring available ambient light, rather than strobe, and you should be fine. Yes, there are lots of meters available out there, but I find the best and most useful ones are ambient meters, and you have a fine one. The only other kind of meter I use is a 1 degree spot meter. If I'm going to use a reflective meter, I want the most accurate, smallest area I can measure- knowing the light will be roughly the same, I read several areas to guage correct highlight and shadow readings, and calculate my exposure from there.
(Edit for grammar, spelling, and content)
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shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Ah, for the meter, I use the Sunny-16 rule and my slow brain to calculate the offsets. If you don't like it after trying for a while, I can recommend a Sekonic L-308.
That thing always agree with my estimations
That thing always agree with my estimations
markinlondon
Elmar user
shadowfox said:Ah, for the meter, I use the Sunny-16 rule and my slow brain to calculate the offsets. If you don't like it after trying for a while, I can recommend a Sekonic L-308.
That thing always agree with my estimations
A man (I assume) after my own heart. Sunny 16 outdoors with a Sekonic L308 for when I'm stumped. If it doesn't agree with me I tend to think it's broken
. I also have a Leicameter MR which is a nice thing to have in a classic Leica outfit but I wouldn't rely on it as my only meter. It's too insensitive and sticky to get quick, reliable readings.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Jaffa,
I support all the above said by Drewbarb. I have looked about your meter and I find nothing wrong with it, on the contrary. I have also glanced at your flickr images and ceirtainly you are not a newbie. Now I will add some very basic points, in which i assume you already know, but somehow getting a meterless camera may make you feel unassured of your existing capabilities.
The incident meter reading with the white dome is the most basic and sure way for obtaining a generally acceptable pic, in which you do not input a special light interpretation of your own. Yet you are not obliged to blindly follow the reading and can shift your camera settings in a general sunlight image. With slide film this shifts go by a third of f/stop up to +2/3 or -2/3, for BW classical films as Tri-x or Ilford HP you can shift up to +3 or -3, and for color film +1.5 or -1.5. All these being very aprox. and perhaps controversial for other knowledgeable folks here and outside.
Just remember to shadow the dome with your other hand, since the half egg shape of the dome will include in the reading a lot of the sky and/or sun. Or on the contrary, don't shadow the dome in case you do want a darker sky.
Now what to do in a situation in which you have both great sunlighted areas and deep shadows. First you can do nothing and the shadowed areas will appear quite dark in your negative. You can also meter the deep shadows, using the meter in reflective -no dome- way and average this reading with the dome reading for sunlight areas. In this latter case you will obtain more detail in the deep shadows, and less detail in the sunlit areas. Yet this less detail doesn't mean no-detail at all, or whashed out images.
Finally you can also concentrate in the deep shadows only, if the main subject is in shadow and from the compositional point of view it is demmanded to do so.
All these possibilities within acceptable images depend more upon the situation you are facing and your wish about what to do with it.
Using outdoors a meterless camera for a person used to metered cameras only, is just a simple issue of getting used to. At the beggining it will appear hard, but at your second and third roll you will be ok, and excell afterwards.
So remember then that your first rolls must be for practice only, and this will further release you from tension. You are a capable photographer, so you will be ok for sure.
Cheers,
Ruben
I support all the above said by Drewbarb. I have looked about your meter and I find nothing wrong with it, on the contrary. I have also glanced at your flickr images and ceirtainly you are not a newbie. Now I will add some very basic points, in which i assume you already know, but somehow getting a meterless camera may make you feel unassured of your existing capabilities.
The incident meter reading with the white dome is the most basic and sure way for obtaining a generally acceptable pic, in which you do not input a special light interpretation of your own. Yet you are not obliged to blindly follow the reading and can shift your camera settings in a general sunlight image. With slide film this shifts go by a third of f/stop up to +2/3 or -2/3, for BW classical films as Tri-x or Ilford HP you can shift up to +3 or -3, and for color film +1.5 or -1.5. All these being very aprox. and perhaps controversial for other knowledgeable folks here and outside.
Just remember to shadow the dome with your other hand, since the half egg shape of the dome will include in the reading a lot of the sky and/or sun. Or on the contrary, don't shadow the dome in case you do want a darker sky.
Now what to do in a situation in which you have both great sunlighted areas and deep shadows. First you can do nothing and the shadowed areas will appear quite dark in your negative. You can also meter the deep shadows, using the meter in reflective -no dome- way and average this reading with the dome reading for sunlight areas. In this latter case you will obtain more detail in the deep shadows, and less detail in the sunlit areas. Yet this less detail doesn't mean no-detail at all, or whashed out images.
Finally you can also concentrate in the deep shadows only, if the main subject is in shadow and from the compositional point of view it is demmanded to do so.
All these possibilities within acceptable images depend more upon the situation you are facing and your wish about what to do with it.
Using outdoors a meterless camera for a person used to metered cameras only, is just a simple issue of getting used to. At the beggining it will appear hard, but at your second and third roll you will be ok, and excell afterwards.
So remember then that your first rolls must be for practice only, and this will further release you from tension. You are a capable photographer, so you will be ok for sure.
Cheers,
Ruben
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jaffa_777
Established
Ruben and Drewbarb, your answers are excellent thanks. I was going to try and learn how to use the meter I have and this helps me out heaps!
Thanks mateys.
Thanks mateys.
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shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Mark, you assume correctly!markinlondon said:A man (I assume) after my own heart. Sunny 16 outdoors with a Sekonic L308 for when I'm stumped. If it doesn't agree with me I tend to think it's broken
Despite the age, the L308 is still accurate, and I get a lot of raised eyebrows when I use it
.I also like the look of the VC II meter, but they are too expensive for my increasing independence on meters.
Will
jbf
||||||
A few months back I followed the advice of several forum members and ended up buying a practically brand new Sekonic L-308B on craigslist in my town for a $120. One of the best things i've spent my money on in a looong time...
I've been training myself to use the sunny 16 rule with it and its a great handy and compact companion for use with a meterless camera. I'm using mine with my FSU Zorki 4k rangefinder. I'm loving the combination.
Granted, sometimes i wish i had an in-camera meter just for slight bit better east, compactness but you cant get much better than this combination.
My meter has always given me good exposures.
I've been training myself to use the sunny 16 rule with it and its a great handy and compact companion for use with a meterless camera. I'm using mine with my FSU Zorki 4k rangefinder. I'm loving the combination.
Granted, sometimes i wish i had an in-camera meter just for slight bit better east, compactness but you cant get much better than this combination.
My meter has always given me good exposures.
Didier
"Deed"
The only lightmeter I found really good so far (on Kiev, Fed and other vintage cameras) is the Voigtlander VC Meter II. I sold my Sekonic L-398 quite quickly after I had tried the VC. I'm just not the handheld metering guy. Mounted on the camera, with an angle of 22° (corresponding to a 90mm lens), the VC gives exactly the centerweighted metering that I like for 35-50mm lenses. Other accessory shoe mounted lightmeters like the sekonic L-208 may work as well, but I have no experience with.
Didier
Didier
Tom Harrell
Well-known
Seems like I read someplace in one of my photography books that there is generally a 1 stop difference between an incident vs reflected reading of the same scene. I forget which reading would give a one stop "over exposure" but I'm thinking it may be the reflected reading. The differences in readings would most likely show up in shots using slide film. Do you metering experts agree with that or am I only dreaming?
Thanks,
Tom
Thanks,
Tom
oftheherd
Veteran
Tom Harrell said:
I have read that also, and sometimes, but not always, found it to be true with my two Gossen (Luna Pro and Luna Pro SBC) meters. Two very good meters by the way. I prefer the Luna Pro for its size, and the SBC as supposed to work better in lower light.
As to the question. Not everyone's experience will be the same, but I always found reflective meters to work a little better with 35mm film, and incident with MF film. It may have just been the way I used them. My incident meter of choice was and is the Sekonic L28c2. What a meter! Always got good results when using it, which I always did with my Super Press 23, another camera without built-in meter.
My experience was that I needed to make fewer adjustments with the readings of the Sekonic than I did with a relective meter. That of course, makes sense. Of course, if you wish to use the Zone System (something you should at least be familiar with if you aren't yet), reflective is necessary and the narrower the angle of acceptance, the better. One reason I got a 1 degree spot attachment for the Luna Pro SBC.
From my perspective, if you are only going to use one meter, use incident, and yours comes from a good family. If you want spot, or at least narrow readings, consider something like the SBC and spot attachment, or the regular Luna Pro with the 7/15 degree attachment. If 7/15 will do for you, no need to get the more expensive SBC and spot attachment.