List of Sonnar Lenses

[ferider]

The Nikkor 135/4, Zeiss 135/4, Jupiter 11 are true Sonnars. (1) Zeiss itself called it like that (and back then it actually related to the design), (2) when increasing focal length, the rear element group becomes a single element. Some other Sonnars in our list also have only a single rear element, not a group, like the Nikkor 85/2 and 105/2.5. Note that the typical Ernostar, of which we have a few, only has a rear element pair. Further, some of the 50mm Sonnars, also have two elements only in the rear "triplet", with one element either completely missing or substituted with one "air element". It's more a matter of asymmetry than the existence of a triplet in the back, IMO.

Roland.

 

[raid]

Steinheil used the Quinon name for many fast (f1.8-f2) normal (~50mm) lenses for 35mm cameras. The ones for SLRs, including Exacta- and 42mm screw-mount lenses, are planar-type (i.e., double-Gauss). The Quinon 50mm f2 in Leica screw mount, however, is a Sonnar.

Cheers,

Dvid

Dvid,
What about the Luxon 50mm/2.0? They had a Quinon and a Luxon for the Braun Paxette camera.

 

[dberger]

The Nikkor 135/4, Zeiss 135/4, Jupiter 11 are true Sonnars. (1) Zeiss itself called it like that (and back then it actually related to the design), (2) when increasing focal length, the rear element group becomes a single element. Some other Sonnars in our list also have only a single rear element, not a group, like the Nikkor 85/2 and 105/2.5. Note that the typical Ernostar, of which we have a few, only has a rear element pair. Further, some of the 50mm Sonnars, also have two elements only in the rear "triplet", with one element either completely missing or substituted with one "air element". It's more a matter of asymmetry than the existence of a triplet in the back, IMO.

Roland.

Quite correct.

I would go so far as to say that many of the f3.5 - f4 135mm lenses in Leica screw mount are Sonnar designs. If the lens does not take the form of a compact lens head perched atop a long tube, like the old Hektor, it is probably a Sonnar. Along with the Zeiss Sonnar, Nikkor, and J11 mentioned by Roland, the list of 135mm 'Sonnars' would include, among others, Serenar, Canon, Komura, and Tanar.

Cheers,

David

 

[dberger]

Raid,

I do not know about the Luxon, or the Quinon for the Paxette. From what I understand, the Luxon is not at all common. Is it possible to make a 50mm Sonnar for a leaf-shutter 35mm camera (with the lens being so far away from the film plane, and all)?

Cheers,

David

 

[tooffy]

.............. The new ZM 85/2, even though labeled as Sonnar by Zeiss is a true double-Gauss design.

Simlar 50/1.5 is a Sonnar, too ? Brian would know.

Best,

Roland.

Not so according to him here.

Hi Hacker,
If Topcor being half Sonnar was deleted from the list, why is the ZM85mm being a true double-Gauss still on the list?😕

 

[raid]

David,
I don't know the answer to your question.
As for the Luxon, it hardly ever shows up on the auction site. My example may be the only one in the world that had been modified to LTM.

 

[tooffy]

The Nikkor 135/4, Zeiss 135/4, Jupiter 11 are true Sonnars. (1) Zeiss itself called it like that (and back then it actually related to the design), (2) when increasing focal length, the rear element group becomes a single element. Some other Sonnars in our list also have only a single rear element, not a group, like the Nikkor 85/2 and 105/2.5. Note that the typical Ernostar, of which we have a few, only has a rear element pair. Further, some of the 50mm Sonnars, also have two elements only in the rear "triplet", with one element either completely missing or substituted with one "air element". It's more a matter of asymmetry than the existence of a triplet in the back, IMO.

Roland.

The Topcor 50mmf1.5 is like that (front: Sonnar; rear: Gauss):

 

[Hacker]

Hi Hacker,
If Topcor being half Sonnar was deleted from the list, why is the ZM85mm being a true double-Gauss still on the list?😕

There is "Sonnar" written on the lens? 😀

 

[Hacker]

The Nikkor 135/4, Zeiss 135/4, Jupiter 11 are true Sonnars. (1) Zeiss itself called it like that (and back then it actually related to the design), (2) when increasing focal length, the rear element group becomes a single element. Some other Sonnars in our list also have only a single rear element, not a group, like the Nikkor 85/2 and 105/2.5. Note that the typical Ernostar, of which we have a few, only has a rear element pair. Further, some of the 50mm Sonnars, also have two elements only in the rear "triplet", with one element either completely missing or substituted with one "air element". It's more a matter of asymmetry than the existence of a triplet in the back, IMO.

Roland.

The master has spoken. I will add them all in. 😉

 

[tooffy]

............ The new ZM 85/2, even though labeled as Sonnar by Zeiss is a true double-Gauss design.........

Best,

Roland.

The master has spoken. ........ 😉

Since the master has spoken, how come didn't follow master's instruction wrt ZM85 and delete it from the list? Or are you the master's Master? 😱😀

 

[ferider]

Since the master has spoken, how come didn't follow master's instruction wrt ZM85 and delete it from the list? Or are you the master's Master? 😱😀

you guys are funny .... The master's master is right next to me; she's watching TV right now.

Looking at the price, I didn't think the 85/2 on the list was the new ZM mount lens. Not sure how it is different from the other 85/2, though ...

Roland.

 

[ferider]

Here is a diagram of the ZM 85/2 "Sonnar" that seems rather symmetrical to me.

Roland.

 

[tooffy]

you guys are funny .... The master's master is right next to me; she's watching TV right now.

Looking at the price, I didn't think the 85/2 on the list was the new ZM mount lens. Not sure how it is different from the other 85/2, though ...

Roland.

Yes, having some fun with my friend, Hacker. 😛 There 2 on the list, one is LTM & the other ZM & the only ZM85 I know is the new one (which is double Guass)...hahaha

 

[Hacker]

I will defer to the trademark holders, Zeiss. If they call the ZM15 a Sonnar, it is a Sonnar. 🙂.

 

[laptoprob]

what's in a name... A Sonnar used to be a type of lens configuration, now it is a trademark.

 

[laptoprob]

Quinon vs Canon

Quinon vs Canon

Here are two scans from a development-handicapped (I think Delta 3200) roll. Candlelight and christmastree. Brutal bokeh test in the christmastree-lights.
First the Quinon, then the Canon. The Canon produces more pronounced donut edges. In sharpness the two are comparable. The Canon gets softer full open. I sold the Canon some time after.

 

[laptoprob]

Here is another from the Canon. More christmas lights.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

1936 Uncoated 5cm F1.5 Sonnar now in LTM, Wide-Open on the Canon P, Fuji-color 200.

1941 5cm F1.5 "T" Sonnar, original LTM.

Wide-open, Kodacolor 400, Canon P, hand-held at 1/15th.

1943 5cm F1.5 "T" Sonnar, original LTM, after thorough rebuild, Wide-Open.

Kodak C41 Black and White

See pictures of the internals of the lens:
http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=143
http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=120

 

[LeicaTom]

1936 Uncoated 5cm F1.5 Sonnar now in LTM, Wide-Open on the Canon P, Fuji-color 200.

1941 5cm F1.5 "T" Sonnar, original LTM.

Wide-open, Kodacolor 400, Canon P, hand-held at 1/15th.

1943 5cm F1.5 "T" Sonnar, original LTM, after thorough rebuild, Wide-Open.

Kodak C41 Black and White

See pictures of the internals of the lens:
http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=143
http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=120

Pre 1945 CZJ Sonnar`s.......hand`s down the BEST! 😀

Tom

 

[raid]

Yes, they are the best for classy looking images. I said classy and no classic.
I now have a 5cm 1.5 and a 5cm 2.0 LTM. Both lenses are superbin my opinion.
It is amazing how good Zeiss glass can be.