TimF
Established
Excellent thread. Dare I add though, that its isn't mandatory to cut the film at all. All you need is a thin business card as follows.
1. insert the leader into the take-up spool as normal
2. drop the spool and film cassette into the camera, so they are just inside the base
3. slide the business card into the camera between the film and the shutter housing until you encounter resistance (you may need to angle the card to get it fully home). the card should be inserted at the centre point of the housing
4. push the film home, and wind-on one frame (hold the card while you do this, or it may get sucked towards the take-up spool). fire the shutter
5. remove the card, and replace the bottom. wind-on and fire the shutter once or twice more, then begin your shooting
Obviously it pays to practice this method with no lens mounted before doing it in earnest, but its much faster than trimming the film.
1. insert the leader into the take-up spool as normal
2. drop the spool and film cassette into the camera, so they are just inside the base
3. slide the business card into the camera between the film and the shutter housing until you encounter resistance (you may need to angle the card to get it fully home). the card should be inserted at the centre point of the housing
4. push the film home, and wind-on one frame (hold the card while you do this, or it may get sucked towards the take-up spool). fire the shutter
5. remove the card, and replace the bottom. wind-on and fire the shutter once or twice more, then begin your shooting
Obviously it pays to practice this method with no lens mounted before doing it in earnest, but its much faster than trimming the film.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
TimF is right - both by Canon IID1 and IVf came with a thin piece of paxolin, slightly larger than a credit card for just this purpose. If you have a canon RF case with a slim pouch at the back, that's where the card should be.
Mark Wood
Well-known
The "credit card method" for loading screw mount Leicas seems to be gaining a lot of popularity if the web sites I've seen are to be believed. I've tried it and it works BUT...
Inserting anything other than a properly trimmed film into the camera opens up unecessary risk to the camera innards. I've spoken to a specialist Leica repairer in the UK at length about this and he of course, gets to see the casualties from this sort of thing. In particular, poking fingers and other implements(!) through an open shutter to properly locate the film can easily lead to damage to the pressure plate. My IIIc had a seriously damaged plate (that put deep scratches along film) from a previous owner doing something along these lines but I was lucky in that a spare one was available-this won't be the case forever.
Cutting a film leader certainly needs a bit of care and forward planning but it pays off in the end. I believe that brand new copies of the original Leica template are even still available although sadly, they aren't cheap. (The instruction sheets in boxes of Kodachrome even had cutting instructions and a template in the 1980s!) A properly trimmed leader and a bit of practice and you can load a screw mount first time, every time - honest!!
Inserting anything other than a properly trimmed film into the camera opens up unecessary risk to the camera innards. I've spoken to a specialist Leica repairer in the UK at length about this and he of course, gets to see the casualties from this sort of thing. In particular, poking fingers and other implements(!) through an open shutter to properly locate the film can easily lead to damage to the pressure plate. My IIIc had a seriously damaged plate (that put deep scratches along film) from a previous owner doing something along these lines but I was lucky in that a spare one was available-this won't be the case forever.
Cutting a film leader certainly needs a bit of care and forward planning but it pays off in the end. I believe that brand new copies of the original Leica template are even still available although sadly, they aren't cheap. (The instruction sheets in boxes of Kodachrome even had cutting instructions and a template in the 1980s!) A properly trimmed leader and a bit of practice and you can load a screw mount first time, every time - honest!!
TimF
Established
Point taken Mark. It definitely needs to be stressed that any business card used for this method must be thin (no thicker than stiff paper really). If the film is pushed down sufficiently, there shouldn't be contact between the card and the pressure plate.
Mark Wood
Well-known
Cheers Tim, I just don't want to see these beautiful cameras disappear! The few times that I've tried to load a film with a card have always left me fiddling with the film to make it sit properly on the sprocket drive. That's something I've never found with the longer leader as a gentle turn on the rewind knob after dropping the film and take-up spool into the camera always seems to make it hit the sprockets first time.
Until I found an ABLON template at a sensible price (very difficult), I used a homemade copy, put together from two sheets of thin brass (from a model shop) and in true "Blue Peter" style (apologies, that's a 1970s UK thing...), some clear sticky backed plastic which acted as a protective covering and a hinge. I guess a similar template made from thick cardboard would be just as effective.
Until I found an ABLON template at a sensible price (very difficult), I used a homemade copy, put together from two sheets of thin brass (from a model shop) and in true "Blue Peter" style (apologies, that's a 1970s UK thing...), some clear sticky backed plastic which acted as a protective covering and a hinge. I guess a similar template made from thick cardboard would be just as effective.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Mark
I have never tried the credit card trick but like you have made my own template from an aluminum T-square used for dry wall cutting. The film is held for cutting between the aluminum halves by large office paper clips. The longer leader works well as it should.
Bob
I have never tried the credit card trick but like you have made my own template from an aluminum T-square used for dry wall cutting. The film is held for cutting between the aluminum halves by large office paper clips. The longer leader works well as it should.
Bob
Mark Wood
Well-known
Hi Bob. I tried to mimic the ABLON template shape with the brass sheets (it was thin enough to cut with scissors) to make sure that the leader didn't tear. The only advantage that the beautifully engineered Leica template really has is the locating pins for the sprocket holes which make the whole thing foolproof.
One caution to anyone cutting a leader - make absolutely sure that the cut towards the edge of the film as you cut the curve does not go through a sprocket hole as that's a recipe for bits of film in the shutter and torn film. If the film tears at allas you cut it (tricky to avoid this problem using scissors), resign yourself to a 33 exposure film and start again!!
One caution to anyone cutting a leader - make absolutely sure that the cut towards the edge of the film as you cut the curve does not go through a sprocket hole as that's a recipe for bits of film in the shutter and torn film. If the film tears at allas you cut it (tricky to avoid this problem using scissors), resign yourself to a 33 exposure film and start again!!
TimF
Established
Do ABLONs still turn up on eBay? That's where I got mine; in fact it was the very first item I ever bought from that site, and (small world) the seller was a guy who worked in the Leica dealer I go to!!
Mark Wood
Well-known
I've never looked for one on eBay - mine came from a "classic camera" dealer quite a while ago. Ffordes (a well known UK dealer, now in Scotland) are advertising a new template for around £50-60 and a UK camera repairer called (I think) Ralph Worman also advertises one on his web site but without a price. The latter looks pretty much the same as ABLON.
atelier7
Well-known
I'm trying to load my IIIc for the very first time. When I try to put the film cassette and spool in, there seems to be something that prevents the film from slotting in easily. When I shone a light into the slot, I noticed that there is a metal ring that is attached to the back of body. (it seems to be about the same diameter as the front ring to screw the lens in). there are 2 points on this ring in the film slot which jut out and they appear to be blocking the film. Is this normal???
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I just checked my IIIc and think I saw the two points that you mentioned so I would guess that that is normal. Have you cut the leader as suggested?
Bob
Bob
Yes, cut the leader, it is the only way the film will slot in. Make sure the film is wound on the take-up spool in the right direction too.
atelier7
Well-known
Eureka!!! It works! I did trim the film as per the instructions and photos, but had to make sure the film leader was a bit narrower. Once again, this site has proven to be a source of invaluable information!
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Strange as I just extend the leader at the same width as the supplied short leader.
Bob
Bob
aad
Not so new now.
I find reverse winding the film on the take-up spool-just a half-turn- helps get the film to load, untrimmed. I sometimes have to do the "through-the-lens" trick, but it doesn't take any force.
Ronald M
Veteran
All I can add is cut off 24 sprocket holes on the top half. Then when you load, allow the tinyest bit of full width film protrude from the cassette, 1/8 inch. Other wise what tends to happen is getting a full width from the cassette requires more force than the tension on the take up spool has and film does not transport.
It is also possible to set the camera on T, and just push the film against the pressure plate and up into the channel. Current 8 sprocket hole trim works fine for this technique.
It is also possible to set the camera on T, and just push the film against the pressure plate and up into the channel. Current 8 sprocket hole trim works fine for this technique.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
A whole thread about how to load a bottom loader... See? that's why i say "no bottom loader for me thanks".
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Pherdinand said:A whole thread about how to load a bottom loader... See? that's why i say "no bottom loader for me thanks".
Just look at it as a labour of love for old things (my wife does)
Bob
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Twenty-two holes should do, Ronald: enough for me, anyway.
Ronald M
Veteran
I used to use 21 or 22 and had trouble. It is suppoed to be enough, but either the rewind clutch slipped or the film came off the rewind reel. Either case no transport.
Using 24 allows me to set the full width exactly so no extra force is requied to get the full width from the cassett. Might be something special with my 111f, I don`t know.
Never had a missload with the M3 or M6 as I can see the sprocket holes are engaged. I wish I could see what happens and then I could make a better analysis and fix. Two different repair people have looked at the camera and found nothing wrong.
Using 24 allows me to set the full width exactly so no extra force is requied to get the full width from the cassett. Might be something special with my 111f, I don`t know.
Never had a missload with the M3 or M6 as I can see the sprocket holes are engaged. I wish I could see what happens and then I could make a better analysis and fix. Two different repair people have looked at the camera and found nothing wrong.