Long term reliability

[ruben]

Hi Phillip,

At his post #14, percepts has more than insinuated he is going to give the ZM a very heavy use as he was asking for.

But even if had he not written hsi post #14, his question is very much legitime, of great interest for all, and I cannot see any reason for any short circuit.

Have a coffee, and remeber those days in which we had such nice talks about selenium cells.

All the best,
Ruben

 

[rxmd]

Hi Ruben,

At his post #14, percepts has more than insinuated he is going to give the ZM a very heavy use as he was asking for.

But even if had he not written hsi post #14, his question is very much legitime, of great interest for all, and I cannot see any reason for any short circuit.

nice to see you back around here! Seems to be some kind of movement now with some old-timers reappearing at RFF.

I wasn't implying that his question was not legitimate, or at least I didn't mean to imply that - I just thought it would be easier to answer if one knew what exactly he was interested in!

Over here at least if you buy a ZM you get two years of warranty. That would already take care of much of the "don't want to replace it every year" issue. Anyway, at that kind of throughput, if you include processing costs, scanning etc. for 10 rolls/week, if I had to choose I'd go with a digital rangefinder.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I'm with several others in really needed to know how many rolls of film you put through a camera day to day now. I would think it would be rare for anyone to trash a film camera through usage these days. All cameras might break, of course. But anyone shooting heavily enough to actually wear one out would likely, for purely economic reasons, probably be shooting digital.

I've shot the shutter out of a few cameras over the years, but it was under much heavier use than you are suggesting. Back in the day when I was shooting 75-100 rolls of film a week, I shot the shutter out of a Nikon F after a couple of years. Then a Nikon FM shutter simply disintegrated after 100,000 frames or so. The only digital I've worn the shutter out in was a Canon 10D and, even though it was rated for 50,000 actuations, it actually was over 85,000 before it fell apart. I've seen some 10D's over 100,000 actuations, though.

I don't think durability is really an issue in any decent modern camera.

 

[ruben]

Hi Ruben,


I wasn't implying that his question was not legitimate, or at least I didn't mean to imply that - I just thought it would be easier to answer if one knew what exactly he was interested in!
.........

Dear Philipp,

Thank you for your greetings. If you notice my calm voice - this is the bonafide effect of some vacation from RFF 🙂

Now back to our issue here, at post#14 our friend is saying he is going to give it a lot of use, pro like use.

Hence I can assume and/or recomend that he will be purchasing two bodies, which increases the bill. Once you have two bodies, one as a back up, you actually get to use the back up body and it fills a certain function in you labout division. So suddenly having trouble with one of the bodies, even if he is covered by Zeiss Ikon guarantee, will be very unpleasant and work hyndering.

In my opinion whether our friend will be doing studio work, or National Geographic type of jungle work is irrelevant. Zeiss Ikon has sent to the market a pricy camera - more or less as the imaginative price of a reflex OM4 T - so it is of general interes how resistant the camera is, albeit the fact that the millions of OM cameras of all types Olympus sent to the market is a clear edge over the Zeiss Ikon, who in its price had to reckon with the fact this camera will be sold by the thousands, not by the millions.

I do agree nevertheless that Nikon and Canon have deliverd to the market cameras for proffesionals, but they are much more costly. Hence that our friend perceipts may be short of budget - another reason for us to help him to the best of ourr abilities.

I still insist in that if percepts is having a project involving so many films - he contact Zeiss Ikon PRs and they may furnish him with free cameras, perhaps even lenses, in exchange of future promotions gains.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[percepts]

The lenses are "ZM" and the body is the "Ikon" or "ZI." I'm just saying. 😉

I know but even zeiss don't call it ZM or ZI so its all made up by us togs.
I just think that since zeiss call the lenses ZM and make no reference to ZI at all, it makes more sense to call it ZM cos everyone can find reference to that at Zeiss whereas there is no reference to ZI.

Besides you know what I mean and the forum calls it Zeiss Ikon ZM.

And to Ruben, I do indeed intend to get two bodies as a backup will be essential.

 

[Papercut]

percepts,

I haven't put 1000 rolls through mine -- more like half that in 2.5 years, but for the first year it was pretty much a roll a day, so that may (or may not) qualify as "heavy use" for you.

For what it's worth I'll summarize my experience, which has has been good, though not without some bumps in the road.

Negatives: (1) the covering wore horribly and had to be replaced after just 6 months. It got tacky and then downright sticky after a mere 150 rolls or so -- that may have been due to my particular body chemistry, however, as other people haven't had that problem. (2) Hanging from my neck or on a wrist strap pretty much every day for a year, the lugs wore extremely fast on mine; to the point that one of them is nearly knife-edge sharp. (I prefer gordy straps with string attachments now, but I cannot use them on the Zeiss as they will be sliced through in no time. Metal rings are out as well, as they will wear the lugs even further -- so the Zeiss goes "strapless" for me until/if I have the lugs replaced.) Some people say the lugs have been upgraded, but I don't know if that's just internet rumor or what. (3) Finally, the frame selector is sometimes stiff and sticks on a particular frame line (i.e., has to be manually pushed into position even after mounting a lens) -- other times it's fine.

Positives: (1) everything else -- I've been quite pleased. The meter is good (once you realize that it's weighted toward the left side ... if you put that end up on a vertical shot with sky in it, it will expose for the sky, not the ground). No problems with the shutter. (2) Most notably, despite its reputation for going out of alignment easily, mine has been extremely robust. I have fallen quite hard, with the bottom corner of the camera impacting the cement. Other than a gash in the paint and metal, the camera suffered no ill-effects; the RF is still dead on. (Haven't tested it with a Noct @ f/1, but it's accurate with my 50/1.4, so that's good enough for me.) Other people, of course, have reported vastly different experiences though.

 

[kshapero]

I have had my ZI for almost 3 years. I use it a lot. How many rolls? I dunno. But it seems to built as well as, say, my Nikon FM which I got in 1978 and it is still going strong. So I vote for lasting a hell of a long time. Besides there probably are a bunch of good repairs guys who could fix it in a pinch.

 

[percepts]

Thanks, thats the sort of feedback I was looking for. It seems the problems are fairly minor and you've given it plenty of use.

 

[Tom A]

I have had my ZM for 4 years (i think) - it was one of the first ones made in black and so far so good. I probably have put 5-700 rolls through it. It is often one of my "travel" bodies and thus gets banged up a bit on airplanes and in cars.
Only problem I had with it was a "cranky" film rewind and I did manage to break the rewind lever. It was quickly fixed under warranty.
Apart from that it has behaved flawlessly, a set of batteries lasts about 50-60 rolls, finder has stayed aligned throughout the whole time. It is light in weight - and this does not imply "light weight" in build by any means. I doubt that my MP's are better built by any significant margin - just different materials.
The Seiko/Copal shutter is an established design with a proven record. Should last a couple of 100 000 exposures with regular use.
As with any project that implies heavy use - I would back up my equipment - either a second ZM (for ease of switching) or a Bessa/used M. ANY camera can act up for whatever reason it can throw at you!!!! On a recent trip to Japan, the filmpressure plate of a MP just 'fell out when I opened the back!!!! It could be "poked" back though - so no big deal.
Mechanical things can fail - but can often be fixed without a degree in computer sciences and $ 100 000 in "analytical equipment" - which is why I still use them. The ZM "dies" when it is out of battery - but otherwise it just keeps plugging along!