Low Light + Handheld + Medium Format = Tough!

[Takkun]

Photographing on the subway in Boston was a favorite pastime of mine (not so much here; I get glared at even when I'm on my way somewhere with a camera around my neck). I shot with a Bronica and Delta 3200 most of the time and contrast was fine. As mentioned, pushing increases contrast. Conversely, fast film is generally lower in native contrast.

I would also put in and say that a RF might be your best bet. SLR photography in a such a situation is possible, but not enjoyable. I generally pre-metered and had a list of various exposure levels, took off the prism, focused surreptitiously, and kept the mirror locked up.
It worked, but it was hardly ideal.

 

[Johnmcd]

Hand held with a Bronica SQA 80/2.8 - HP5 pushed to 1600 (total cost of camera and lens approx. $300)

Fuji GF670 probably 1/8 or 1/15 sec @ f3.5

Cheers - John

 

[Photo_Smith]

I use a TLR and can easily go down to 1/15, leaf shutters are a big help as is delta 3200.

I think this is at 1/4 sec. There is no light really (hard to see let alone focus) and Delta pushed as far as I can which is 25,800EI

I find it easier to hold the Rollei at waist and instead of bracing against the face and pressing down like you do with top mounted releases on most cameras. I push the button gently towards me, that and the leaf shutter make for little movement.

This was about 1/4 sec too possibly slower Acros pushed to 800EI

 

[JChrome]

I use a TLR and can easily go down to 1/15, leaf shutters are a big help as is delta 3200. I think this is at 1/4 sec. There is no light really (hard to see let alone focus) and Delta pushed as far as I can which is 25,800EI I find it easier to hold the Rollei at waist and instead of bracing against the face and pressing down like you do with top mounted releases on most cameras. I push the button gently towards me, that and the leaf shutter make for little movement. This was about 1/4 sec too possibly slower Acros pushed to 800EI

That first shot is really great! The more I read here, the more I am thinking TLR. I've never used a Medium format RF before (or TLR for that matter) but I've used a 35mm RF and enjoyed it immensely. Come to think of it, I could take photos down to 1/15 and the images would come out fine (although it was with very wide angle lenses).

Now the question is, wide angle TLR or standard?

 

[Frank Petronio]

Good luck finding a wide angle TLR ~ Rolleiwide ($$$) or Mamiya C (clunky and heavy). Frankly a RF and TLR are going to be similar in terms of slow shutter speed handholding... it's the SLRs that require higher handheld speeds.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then get a Rollei TLR and Fuji RF and test. That's the absolute best method.

 

[philipaloft]

I'd also advocate getting used to Delta 3200 for low light work, and add that experience using this film has taught me to shoot it at 1600 but process it as though it'd been shot at 3200.
Philip

 

[DominikDUK]

A tlr with a top mounted shutter release and a neck strap are the best tools in my opinion (e.g. Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex). Tension the neck strap and push the shutter. Delta 3200 is a great film and the resulting enlargements from a 6x6 neg, even at 3200ISO, are less grainy than non pushed tri-x from a 35mm neg.

 

[Spanik]

Don't know where you guys get it that you need an RF or TLR to go slow. It takes some training but it is possible handholding a Kiev 60 at 1/15 or at 1/8 with mirror up. So something better behaved it can only get better.

 

[Frank Petronio]

Don't know where you guys get it that you need an RF or TLR to go slow. It takes some training but it is possible handholding a Kiev 60 at 1/15 or at 1/8 with mirror up. So something better behaved it can only get better.

Well then with your super steadiness you should be able to shoot a RF or TLR for two or three minutes!

 

[rhl-oregon]

Radical! Describe your development for Delta 25.8K?

I think this is at 1/4 sec. There is no light really (hard to see let alone focus) and Delta pushed as far as I can which is 25,800EI

This was about 1/4 sec too possibly slower Acros pushed to 800EI

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Have you considered a Mamiya 6? The lenses aren't fast (50mm f/4, 75mm f/3.5, 105mm f/4.5) but the results are incredible. If I were to have only one film camera to use with one lens, it would be the Mamiya 6 with the 50mm. Load it up with 3200 and ride the F the whole route. Or any of the NYC subways, for that matter. It's almost silent. The Pentax 67 can be heard above the screeching noise of the train! 😉

I'm like you in that I prefer to use only one emulsion per format. In 35mm it's Eastman 5222, in 120 it's Tri-X but sometimes I just have to load up the fast stuff to give me hand holding speeds: at night in Philly, Jersey City or NYC; in the subway in Philly or NYC.

A few notes, if you haven't read the MTA rules on photos:
Flash is strictly forbidden (even though people use it with point and shoots all the time.)
Tripods are strictly forbidden except for press with credentials and clearance for the shoot in the MTA system (they say the tripod is a potential safety hazard as it could be a hindrance to egress.)

Other than that, all MYA assets are public property and you can shoot there like you can shoot on the sidewalk.

Photography is forbidden in the PATH system. Port Authority clamped down on this after September 11, 2001 and even though the public transit systems in both NJ and NY allow unfettered photographic access to their subways, trains and buses, the PATH is still off limits.

Man, I can't wait to get back to the city! (visiting family in New Mexico now)

Phil Forrest

 

[sevo]

With most medium format cameras the real issue are higher requirements and lower lens speeds - for the degree of blur desirable on large enlargements and a lens starting at f/4 or f/5.6 and a sweet spot past f/11, "hand-holdable" happens rarely enough that you'll have that tripod at hand in any case. But if you print small (and have a camera with fast lens), film format is not really a factor. Often the bigger moving mass of medium format cameras is compensated by the higher body and lens weight and longer delay times, so the degree of shake when hand-holding the same speeds on a medium format camera and its small format counterpart for the same (modest) print size will not be much different. But you'll have to go up a speed or two if you want to enlarge to the dimensions you'd generally pick medium format for.

 

[Frank Petronio]

With most medium format cameras the real issue are higher requirements and lower lens speeds - for the degree of blur desirable on large enlargements and a lens starting at f/4 or f/5.6 and a sweet spot past f/11, "hand-holdable" happens rarely enough that you'll have that tripod at hand in any case. But if you print small (and have a camera with fast lens), film format is not really a factor. Often the bigger moving mass of medium format cameras is compensated by the higher body and lens weight and longer delay times, so the degree of shake when hand-holding the same speeds on a medium format camera and its small format counterpart for the same (modest) print size will not be much different. But you'll have to go up a speed or two if you want to enlarge to the dimensions you'd generally pick medium format for.

But there are bragging rights involved, just like people who shoot 8x10 but make modest prints... what matters is all the hard work and expense they went through!

 

[Phil_F_NM]

But there are bragging rights involved, just like people who shoot 8x10 but make modest prints... what matters is all the hard work and expense they went through!

Like schlepping a 20x24 Polaroid, shooting then only posting the final image in the internet at web resolution? 😀
I've never done this. I've only been near the aforementioned camera once but never got under the hood to compose an image, even though I've been dreaming of doing so since about 1998.

Phil Forrest

 

[Frank Petronio]

Like schlepping a 20x24 Polaroid, shooting then only posting the final image in the internet at web resolution? 😀
I've never done this. I've only been near the aforementioned camera once but never got under the hood to compose an image, even though I've been dreaming of doing so since about 1998.

Phil Forrest

Having done one project with it, at the price per shot you suddenly become a very conservative photographer. And when you look at the results, most photographers tend to stick with the same perspective and framing because they can't afford to waste shots experimenting.

The people who can make it sing are the technicians who get to shoot with it for their own projects (at a reduced rate). Jennifer Trausch runs the camera in the NYC studio and does AMAZING work... she uses 8x10 like a miniature camera and somehow gets the 20x24 to be fluid.

Check it out: http://www.jennifertrausch.com

Frankly I think she and the other techs are way better than the deep pocketed and famous photographers who hire the 20x24 camera. Just calling it like it is....

 

[DominikDUK]

Thank you for the link you are right her work is better than most work I've seen from other more famous 20 x 24 polaroid users.
It always amazes me how static LF photography has become compared to the work of early 20th to mid 20th century LF press and sport photographers. Looking at the work of some of those photographers you'd never guess they used 4x5 or even 5x7 instead of 35mm cameras. Size doesn't matter mindset matters.

 

[2WK]

Mamiya 7. I ust push tri-x to 800 or 1600 with rodinal. Works pretty good.
But, as said…yes I want a Makina as well!!

 

[pirx70]

Hello,
myself got Mamiya 7II, and f4/f4.5 is never an issue - it IS already very thin DoF on 6x7 80 mm, for my type of photography (landscape/cityscape) f2.8 wouldn't find much use. Rather high ISO is what I very often need when shooting at f16, f22 to get as much as possible in focus, with a yellow filter at that. And the outfit is very light, plus the central electronic shutter makes it easy to shoot 1/15 handheld, or probably longer times as well.

 

[Thomas78]

Rolleiflex 2.8 TLR, you can handhold down to 1/15th. Any focal plane shutter will be worse, and even more so if there is the mirror slap.

I was also thinking about a TLR for available light but I am wondering if the screen is bright enought for precise focusing at f/2.8 in low light.

The old screens from the 50s and 60s TLR I have are not bright enought imho.

 

[ianstamatic]

use a rollei 66, or mamiya rb or rz screen cut down.
works beautifully.

also for low speed handheld with a rolleiflex. Set the self timer for 1 or 2 seconds so there is no shutter trigger movement and brace the camera against something solid. can get away with 1/4 sec repeatedly like that