Low Light + Handheld + Medium Format = Tough!

I'd learn how to make peace with Delta 3200. It's best to have a little shutter speed and depth of field leeway regardless of camera choice. And the grain and contrast make sense being used underground, I think it's a wonderful film.

After all if you want studio quality grain-free pix you'd use lighting and/or digital... So why cut it halfway? Jump all in.
 
Frank Petronio said:
I'd learn how to make peace with Delta 3200. It's best to have a little shutter speed and depth of field leeway regardless of camera choice. And the grain and contrast make sense being used underground, I think it's a wonderful film.

After all if you want studio quality grain-free pix you'd use lighting and/ or digital... So why cut it halfway? Jump all in.
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It's a good point. I just like the contrast of lower speed film. I will shoot some of the Delta 3200 and see if it suits.

That said, I think the TLR is a great option here. The Rolleiflex TLR is a real beauty (and heavily used by Vivian Maier, one of my favorite photographers). I've heard it can be a bit fragile though.

I think my reasoning for looking so seriously at the Rollei 6008 was the different lens options - those Schneider lenses just make me drool. I've heard the ergonomics are better than a Hassy as well so that would help with the shutter speed.

Here's a quote from a review of the Rollei 6008:
"It is best to buy the camera with the hand-grip. I have made successful hand-held photos with the Rollei as low as 1/8 seconds. Prints are sharp at 8"x10" but blurring would probably be evident at larger scales. The mirror is large but mirror-slap is nowhere near as bad as the Hasselblad mirror likely due to Rollei's patented pneumatic braking system. Like other medium format cameras, the Rollei is at it's best on a tripod with the mirror locked up before shooting. Rollei lenses from Zeiss and Schneider have electronic leaf shutters that are essentially vibrationless."

Review here.

I also should have admittedly looked on this forum for more information (I always think to myself that much of the information on here is just being repeated over and over again...). Here's another very similar thread. Within that thread "snowbuzz" shows some photos down to 1/2 second exposure and 1/8 of a second as well.

I think I could get by with ISO 400 shooting at 2.8 and 1/30th of a second. It may take some time to get good however...
 
I am primarily an MF shooter and under the circumstances I would use a TLR and push TMY to 1600. I also own a 6008i kit and it is quite heavy so the benefits of fast lenses is negated by the need to shoot as faster speeds.
 
jkrumsick said:
It's a good point. I just like the contrast of lower speed film. I will shoot some of the Delta 3200 and see if it suits.

That said, I think the TLR is a great option here. The Rolleiflex TLR is a real beauty (and heavily used by Vivian Maier, one of my favorite photographers). I've heard it can be a bit fragile though.

I think my reasoning for looking so seriously at the Rollei 6008 was the different lens options - those Schneider lenses just make me drool. I've heard the ergonomics are better than a Hassy as well so that would help with the shutter speed.

Here's a quote from a review of the Rollei 6008:
"It is best to buy the camera with the hand-grip. I have made successful hand-held photos with the Rollei as low as 1/8 seconds. Prints are sharp at 8"x10" but blurring would probably be evident at larger scales. The mirror is large but mirror-slap is nowhere near as bad as the Hasselblad mirror likely due to Rollei's patented pneumatic braking system. Like other medium format cameras, the Rollei is at it's best on a tripod with the mirror locked up before shooting. Rollei lenses from Zeiss and Schneider have electronic leaf shutters that are essentially vibrationless."

Review here.

I also should have admittedly looked on this forum for more information (I always think to myself that much of the information on here is just being repeated over and over again...). Here's another very similar thread. Within that thread "snowbuzz" shows some photos down to 1/2 second exposure and 1/8 of a second as well.

I think I could get by with ISO 400 shooting at 2.8 and 1/30th of a second. It may take some time to get good however...
Click to expand...
I quite agree that a Rolleiflex can't take the sort of beating a Nikon F or a Hasselblad might survive. They don't like being dropped at all, it can put the lenses out of alignment and bend backs for starters. But this is abuse, carelessness or admittedly, occasionally just plain bad luck. However I wouldn't call them "fragile". They were made to excellent standards and capable of decades of service and take a lot to wear out. If you are hard on your gear, throw it in boot of your car, etc. a Rollei definitely isn't for you. On the other hand, if you take care of your kit, a Rolleiflex could have a happy ending for you, and the results are beyond reproach.
Cheers,
Brett
 
I think going Medium Format in the OP available light,
a "Bridge too far".
The ample depth of field of smaller cameras.
Going with digital, point and shoot, FOR ME,
a real joy of added possibilities.
I have used Film and my Rollei TLR.
It's possible, so is using a 4x5.
Equally quite!
The Pentax 67, which i once owned,
is way too audible.
One push of the shutter and dairy cows loose milk,
in a ten mile radius.
If however you make yourself known, use fill flash,
as did Bruce Davidson in "Subway" anything is possible..
Note Davidson shot before "Homeland" security.
 
jkrumsick said:
I think my reasoning for looking so seriously at the Rollei 6008 was the different lens options - those Schneider lenses just make me drool. I've heard the ergonomics are better than a Hassy as well so that would help with the shutter speed.
Click to expand...

Not to feed your fantasy but Mike Johnston over at The Online Photographer likely still has his Rollei 6008 kit for sale since nobody has wanted it since 2001 or so. You could of course opt for the Rollei/Sinar Hy6 with a film back, now there's the perfect camera!

Rolleis don't like being dropped or getting dirty but not any more or less than any other fine camera. In terms of using, they are smooth and reassuring. When I used them I would have them serviced every couple of years, same as a Hassle-bad. A Rolleicord is a bit slower because of the shutter cocking and 3.5 lens (like a lot of the Japanese TLRs) but it is a simpler camera with excellent image quality, might be a better option for rough and tumble work.

Having shot with the triumvirate of TLR, SLR, and RF medium format cameras in lousy light, I would opt for the one with the best rangefinder first and foremost. Focusing on a screen may well be impossible. Personally I'd get a Fuji GW670III or the wider GSW670III, load it up with Delta 3200, grab a tactical pen and a convenient spray bottle of culinary red pepper and go shooting. Avoid up skirts and be sure to video your confrontations with the good officers.
 
My experience supports those advocating any of the Fuji or Plaubel Makina RFs as well as the Norita 66 & TLRs. All of those cameras can be easily be handheld down to 1/15th sec. & even as slow as 1/8th or 1/4th of a sec. with practice & minimal support (e.g., leaning against a pillar or wall). In general, when compared to 35mm, I think the greater mass of medium format gear counterbalances the relatively slow lenses (of course, this doesn't help if you're trying to stop action). As mentioned, old folder RFs like the Super Ikonta or Super Isolette work fine, too, but are usually lacking in RF/VF brightness as well as critical sharpness wide open (if that's your thing). I also support going way above ISO 400, though I would only reluctantly go beyond 2500 unless I was using Diafine, etc. Finally, IIRC, the NYC subway system is actually pretty bright in the trains & stations, so ISO 2500 & f/2.8-4 should cover most situations.

E.g., this shot inside the Bedford Ave. station was on 35mm, shot at ISO 1600, f/2 & 1/60th sec., so would have been 1/15th @ f/4 (or 1/30th if ISO 2500), which is totally doable w/any of the recommended cameras:

2749130944_2a6f677fc9_o.jpg
 
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tsiklonaut said:
Plaubel Makina 67 is the answer. With f2.8 lens version. Among the best, if not THE best 67 rangefinder ever made, IMO. Don't own it since I can't afford it (yet!), but I did got a chance to try it and was amazed how small, elegant and capable the thing is. If I had the dosh I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
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Agree.
Some day I'll get one.
 
Frank Petronio said:
Having shot with the triumvirate of TLR, SLR, and RF medium format cameras in lousy light, I would opt for the one with the best rangefinder first and foremost. Focusing on a screen may well be impossible. Personally I'd get a Fuji GW670III or the wider GSW670III, load it up with Delta 3200, grab a tactical pen and a convenient spray bottle of culinary red pepper and go shooting. Avoid up skirts and be sure to video your confrontations with the good officers.
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No problems with officers or confrontation really. I shoot all day long with the Pentax 67, but the majority of the time it is "waist-leveled" so I think that helps with being incognito. This is there the TLR could come in. Having a fixed lens makes things tougher, but then again, for the price of the Schneider glass on the Rollei, I could get another body.

I have compiled some of the weights for the different cameras in discussion. The 6008 really is a heavy system, much moreso than the Pentax 67.

Rollei 6008 Body - 1500 g (this is the AF version so I assume the pro or i version is less)
Schneider Rollei 50mm F2.8 - 1500 g.
Schneider Rollei 80mm F2 - 900 g.

Pentax 67 - 1300 g (without prism).
Standard Lens - 700 g.

Rolleiflex TLR 2.8 - approximately 1000 g.

Plaubel Makina 67 2.8 - 1400 g. (only "source was Ken Rockwell..)

Fuji GW690iii - 1500 g.
 
FWIW, according to the manuals, the Plaubel Makina 67 is "approx. 1280 grams" & the GW690II is "1,440 g".

The Norita 66 is a bit lighter than the Pentax 67, otherwise they operate & handle very similarly.

Hard to believe the Rolleiflex 2.8F is only 1000g . . .

jkrumsick said:
Plaubel Makina 67 2.8 - 1400 g. (only "source was Ken Rockwell..)

Fuji GW690iii - 1500 g.
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I think the Pentax 67 and the 645 are too obtrusive and have to much mirror vibration to be good for low light w/o flash.
That being said, I just ordered 10 rolls of TMAX 400 120 size and some Acufine Developer. I am going to take to the subway and try out my Rolleicord, with the 3.5 F stop and my Koni-Omega.
This dialogue has been inspiring. It may take a month or more to get results. In the meantime, anyone have any medium format subway shots they can post?
 
Thanks for the tip. I just realized that the Rolleicord has a built in "sports finder". I just got the camera, and ran the first roll through last week. The Rolleicord is perhaps one of the best designed cameras that I have ever used.
 
The advantage of the Rolleiflex TLR, is that you can place it against something, and just gently squeeze the shutter, or you can push it against your body and hold the breath.
This shot was made at 1/2 sec, with the camera in my hand, but resting against the pavement:


20131305 by mfogiel, on Flickr
 
dshfoto said:
Thanks for the tip. I just realized that the Rolleicord has a built in "sports finder". I just got the camera, and ran the first roll through last week. The Rolleicord is perhaps one of the best designed cameras that I have ever used.
Click to expand...

Excellent shot Mfogal! That looks European.

For dshfoto - I have a number of photos I've taken with my Pentax 67. Many are underexposed as you might imagine. But Here are some.

I would post them in the post, but I am unsure how to resize them in the wordpress link. If anyone knows how, please let me in on the secret.
 
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