dave lackey
Veteran
Okay, now for a little twist on things "M".
In a former life, I was a professional planner. Now that I am considering my future needs regarding the instruments I need in the future, planning is just a natural thing to do.:angel:
Lately, I have been thinking of my next 5-10 years work, photographically speaking. Having come from a long background using Nikon DSLR's, I have naturally been thinking of an M9 for the future and maybe even an X1. So, yesterday, Andrew was kind enough to let us fellow RFF'ers try out his new M9+Lux and the X1. The M9 was perfect if a bit light, but that is down the road, not even a serious consideration right now.
The X1 was, lighter, great size and quite a looker.
But it doesn't use interchangeable lenses. It didn't have a viewfinder which drives me crazy. Try as I might, I have never been able to use a screen for composing. It is horribly counter-intuitive and a nightmare for me. An SLR or DSLR is far better than a screen IMO. Maybe I could get used to the external VF, who knows? For now, I have to face the fact that the X1 is not going to work in tandem with the M3.
So, back to my needs. A second M-body would be great. An M9 would fit nicely in the future plans. An M6 might fit quite well as I need a metered body. The R4 is doing a terrific job but I have other plans for it and an MP is probably the best fit in the 10-year plan. In fact, two MP's would be perfect. Or an M9 and an MP.
But, that lousy screen thing with the X1 drives me up a wall. Even MF pops in a new window for the wheely focus action and is even worse. Nothing about these smaller digital cameras will be "invisible" in my hands, they will just be another learning curve and a bad fit for the M bodies that I have selected for my work. It is not a hobby anymore.
I know a few professionals on this forum using M bodies exclusively which is where I am headed. Any insights as to gearing up for the long-haul would be appreciated as always.
In a former life, I was a professional planner. Now that I am considering my future needs regarding the instruments I need in the future, planning is just a natural thing to do.:angel:
Lately, I have been thinking of my next 5-10 years work, photographically speaking. Having come from a long background using Nikon DSLR's, I have naturally been thinking of an M9 for the future and maybe even an X1. So, yesterday, Andrew was kind enough to let us fellow RFF'ers try out his new M9+Lux and the X1. The M9 was perfect if a bit light, but that is down the road, not even a serious consideration right now.
The X1 was, lighter, great size and quite a looker.
But it doesn't use interchangeable lenses. It didn't have a viewfinder which drives me crazy. Try as I might, I have never been able to use a screen for composing. It is horribly counter-intuitive and a nightmare for me. An SLR or DSLR is far better than a screen IMO. Maybe I could get used to the external VF, who knows? For now, I have to face the fact that the X1 is not going to work in tandem with the M3.So, back to my needs. A second M-body would be great. An M9 would fit nicely in the future plans. An M6 might fit quite well as I need a metered body. The R4 is doing a terrific job but I have other plans for it and an MP is probably the best fit in the 10-year plan. In fact, two MP's would be perfect. Or an M9 and an MP.
But, that lousy screen thing with the X1 drives me up a wall. Even MF pops in a new window for the wheely focus action and is even worse. Nothing about these smaller digital cameras will be "invisible" in my hands, they will just be another learning curve and a bad fit for the M bodies that I have selected for my work. It is not a hobby anymore.
I know a few professionals on this forum using M bodies exclusively which is where I am headed. Any insights as to gearing up for the long-haul would be appreciated as always.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Get a M9 Dave. It is in your future as you said. It is available now. Clients love digital. It is immediate. Why wait?
All the best.
All the best.
robbeiflex
Well-known
Why not an M9 right away? If budget doesn't currently permit, then an M6 TTL, M7, M8 or M8.2? These are all ergonomically similar to M9, aren't they? There are decent prices around for M6 and M8 these days, whereas the M8.2 is pricey from what I've seen.
Cheers,
Rob
Cheers,
Rob
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Used M8's have slowly (some might say inevitably) come down in price, it seems ... you can buy a pampered M8 for almost the same as a mint M7 these days.
I think it depends on your workflow and what you're comfortable with (digital vs film). Goodness knows, with M8 prices so reasonable, I've considered stepping up to a gently-used M8 -- but I'm not entirely enamored with the crop factor. I figure that if I'm going to shoot with a rangefinder, I might as well just shoot film and enjoy the benefits of full-frame.
Even though the M9 is a beautiful machine, I can't help but think that digital obsolescence is a nasty creature and 2-3 years from now, there will be a M9.2 or something along those lines. Since I'm just a hobbyist, I can't really justify spending the capital on an M9, even though I'd love to get one. I can't recoup the costs in any practical way.
In the meantime I'm more than happy to shoot my lovely late-model M6 classic.
I think it depends on your workflow and what you're comfortable with (digital vs film). Goodness knows, with M8 prices so reasonable, I've considered stepping up to a gently-used M8 -- but I'm not entirely enamored with the crop factor. I figure that if I'm going to shoot with a rangefinder, I might as well just shoot film and enjoy the benefits of full-frame.
Even though the M9 is a beautiful machine, I can't help but think that digital obsolescence is a nasty creature and 2-3 years from now, there will be a M9.2 or something along those lines. Since I'm just a hobbyist, I can't really justify spending the capital on an M9, even though I'd love to get one. I can't recoup the costs in any practical way.
In the meantime I'm more than happy to shoot my lovely late-model M6 classic.
LeicaFan
Well-known
Dave,
It sounds like your heart is set on the M9. If money isn't the issue, you might as well get it now. If you wait a few years, there will be an M9.2 out, possibly even an M10 and chances are that you'll want that one even more. Then you'll persuade yourself to wait a few more years til the prices come down, but then there will be an M10.2 or M11. It's a never ending cycle!
Like I said, if you like it and you can afford it, buy the M9 now and enjoy it. If not, what about an M8? Like Bobby said, they're reasonably priced (who knows how much lower they'll go).
Wes
It sounds like your heart is set on the M9. If money isn't the issue, you might as well get it now. If you wait a few years, there will be an M9.2 out, possibly even an M10 and chances are that you'll want that one even more. Then you'll persuade yourself to wait a few more years til the prices come down, but then there will be an M10.2 or M11. It's a never ending cycle!
Like I said, if you like it and you can afford it, buy the M9 now and enjoy it. If not, what about an M8? Like Bobby said, they're reasonably priced (who knows how much lower they'll go).
Wes
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Dave,
If you can possibly find the money, M9.
If not; well, not.
Cheers,
R.
If you can possibly find the money, M9.
If not; well, not.
Cheers,
R.
dave lackey
Veteran
The price of admission for an M9 is prohibitive for awhile, unfortunately. An M8 is not in consideration because of the crop factor. I LOVED the crop factor when I was shooting sports, motorsports, etc. but with an M body, it is more of hindrance than a help as I am a hopeless 50mm fanatic and I cannot afford any lenses anytime soon.
Maybe there will be a time when an M9 will be feasible. Probably after the M10 or whatever comes around.
The problem is with the documentaries I am producing. Printing for a 52 page documentary is running about $80. Film, processing and scanning is running about...well, I haven't quite calculated the exact cost but it seems to be around $1000 out-of-pocket per book. I would have to sell a lot of books to break even. With an M9, I could produce the book without the huge cost of film, processing and scanning and it would still take half dozen or more projects to break even. A cheaper film body from an M6 to the Mp would be significantly cheaper.
Maybe my math is off here but this is the dilemma I find myself in. Still trying to work it out so if any beancounters are out there, chime in, the more the merrier!
Maybe there will be a time when an M9 will be feasible. Probably after the M10 or whatever comes around.
The problem is with the documentaries I am producing. Printing for a 52 page documentary is running about $80. Film, processing and scanning is running about...well, I haven't quite calculated the exact cost but it seems to be around $1000 out-of-pocket per book. I would have to sell a lot of books to break even. With an M9, I could produce the book without the huge cost of film, processing and scanning and it would still take half dozen or more projects to break even. A cheaper film body from an M6 to the Mp would be significantly cheaper.
Maybe my math is off here but this is the dilemma I find myself in. Still trying to work it out so if any beancounters are out there, chime in, the more the merrier!
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dave lackey
Veteran
Oh, I meant to ask... is it possible to sell documentaries as an e-book to avoid the cost of printing? Or maybe license the images to, say the local town, for a price and let them deal with the printed or digital form of the documentary?
All of these decisions will impact my next M purchase so it would be nice to get these questions answered for that reason alone.
All of these decisions will impact my next M purchase so it would be nice to get these questions answered for that reason alone.
segedi
RFicianado
There was an article of some photographer who actually gave e-books away and it drove printed book sales! Might not be for everyone though.
And a planning thought... In 10 years a film M will still be serviceable; I'm guessing a digital M won't be. In 10 years your favorite film might not be available either though.
And a planning thought... In 10 years a film M will still be serviceable; I'm guessing a digital M won't be. In 10 years your favorite film might not be available either though.
ferider
Veteran
Hi Dave,
In my book, there are things some new Leica products do, that no other tools can. For example, the M9 is currently unique. So is, say, the 50/1.4 ASPH. Even though the price of admission is high, I understand why you would want to buy this pair, in particular, if you can write it off with taxes, as a professional.
On the other hand, in my book, the MP is a piece of jewelery, nothing else. A well maintained M6 will do exactly the same things, and even be more robust. And for the price of one MP you can buy 2+ M6 bodies. Regarding compact digitals, the X100 does so much more than the X1, that I don't understand why anyone would buy an X1 right now.
Then again, if you are talking planning for 10+ years, wrt digital, I would wait a few months, the X100 has been so successful, that we are bound to get an interchangeable lens version very soon, giving you equivalent functionality to an M9. I'm not talking full frame, but optimized lenses (35/2 and 75/2 equivalent would be enough for me) for a higher iso sensor.
So for the moment, I suggest to focus on an M6, Dave, or that 80 Lux that you always wanted
Cheers,
Roland.
In my book, there are things some new Leica products do, that no other tools can. For example, the M9 is currently unique. So is, say, the 50/1.4 ASPH. Even though the price of admission is high, I understand why you would want to buy this pair, in particular, if you can write it off with taxes, as a professional.
On the other hand, in my book, the MP is a piece of jewelery, nothing else. A well maintained M6 will do exactly the same things, and even be more robust. And for the price of one MP you can buy 2+ M6 bodies. Regarding compact digitals, the X100 does so much more than the X1, that I don't understand why anyone would buy an X1 right now.
Then again, if you are talking planning for 10+ years, wrt digital, I would wait a few months, the X100 has been so successful, that we are bound to get an interchangeable lens version very soon, giving you equivalent functionality to an M9. I'm not talking full frame, but optimized lenses (35/2 and 75/2 equivalent would be enough for me) for a higher iso sensor.
So for the moment, I suggest to focus on an M6, Dave, or that 80 Lux that you always wanted
Cheers,
Roland.
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rxmd
May contain traces of nut
If you sell them for $100 you have to sell 50 to break even. I don't know about your documentaries and whether there's a market for them at $100. Selling them for $0.99 on-line in a somewhat dumbed-down PDF version certainly seems possible in order to drive people to the $100 investment, but it's hard to do bean counting without knowing the facts. Also, $1.60 per page seems expensive to me for a printed book (without knowing of the planned print run, print quality etc.)
An affordable M8 with a good 35 is certainly an alternative to an unaffordable M9 in my book. An MP is pointless, and two MPs are even more pointless, you can get an M9 for that money. As Roland has pointed out an M6 does the same thing as an MP if what you want is a tool for work. If you're short on money the cheapest metered M body is the M5, and it also has better ergonomics; at least check it out.
An affordable M8 with a good 35 is certainly an alternative to an unaffordable M9 in my book. An MP is pointless, and two MPs are even more pointless, you can get an M9 for that money. As Roland has pointed out an M6 does the same thing as an MP if what you want is a tool for work. If you're short on money the cheapest metered M body is the M5, and it also has better ergonomics; at least check it out.
dave lackey
Veteran
Thanks for the perspective Roland. As far as the X100, nah...it doesn't interest me in the least.
I will stick with an M-body. Not sure which way to go but life is too short to screw around with something I do not want to experience and I am not going to get just any M-body. Which one? I don't know yet.
Looks like I will sell the D40 kit and maybe another camera or two to get me started on my all-M body setup.
I will stick with an M-body. Not sure which way to go but life is too short to screw around with something I do not want to experience and I am not going to get just any M-body. Which one? I don't know yet.
Looks like I will sell the D40 kit and maybe another camera or two to get me started on my all-M body setup.
KM-25
Well-known
Seems like you need to ask actual full time professional photographers about this Dave. I am in the process of mulitiple documentaries and putting out my book on Kodachrome. Lately, I have been debating on what set of tools to bring to Isreal in order to shoot a two week long piece for a NGO in September.
I thought about renting an M9 so I could bring an all M kit but to be honest, I am going to get far better results in brining my D700, some small primes and use the heck out of my X100....which ironically has put an enormous stake in the heart of any desire from me to waste money on an M9...
In a perfect world, I would bring two versions of the X100 to the Middle East in September, one with the existing 35/2 and one with a 50/2, I would not even bother with the Nikons at that point.
I thought about renting an M9 so I could bring an all M kit but to be honest, I am going to get far better results in brining my D700, some small primes and use the heck out of my X100....which ironically has put an enormous stake in the heart of any desire from me to waste money on an M9...
In a perfect world, I would bring two versions of the X100 to the Middle East in September, one with the existing 35/2 and one with a 50/2, I would not even bother with the Nikons at that point.
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